1st High-Powered (Ethanol) E85 Porsche 997 Turbo by Prototech & Protomotive
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1st High-Powered (Ethanol) E85 Porsche 997 Turbo by Prototech & Protomotive
** I WAS FED UP ** with race gas and finally threw in the towel at a race meet months back.....
My quest to convert my car over to E85 (ethanol) began this one night when a number of cars met up a local race spot. I usually show up in my 997 turbo on 93 octane with one or two 5-gallon drums of MS109 in the trunk "just in case".
Usually it would make sense to come prepared to a race meet, but I had my share of nights when I would show up with $120.00+ of MS109 already in my tank just to find out that there wasn't anyone to run. This was a common occurrence and a terrible waste of race fuel and money. I grew tired of it fast. But that’s not where my frustrations ended...
So this one night at a race spot two separate groups approach me with two cars that were willing to line up and run against me...both of which seemed like they would be a good match for my 997. Both cars were ready to go immediately but I explained to them I needed some time prepare my car. They were willing to wait.
Here is what I had to go through that night to prepare my car to race:
1st) Right there, in the parking lot with everyone waiting, I began draining the 93 octane out of my tank. I did this by connecting a spare fuel hose along with a special tool to the Schrader valve that comes off the factory fuel pump. I then led the fuel hose to several empty fuel containers. I started the engine and let the fuel flow into the containers. The 2 cars waited. Unfortunately, I had 3/4 of a tank that night so it took a good 20-25 minutes before the tank was fully drained. (On a side note, I’m aware that most people are not willing to take the time to drain their tanks. Instead, they usually run their cars around town until their pump gas levels are low and then add in race fuel over the top. However, this is not something I do. I never felt comfortable mixing fuels because even a small amount of pump gas lowers effective octane numbers and increases your risk of detonation. Something I wasn’t willing to do - especially when running high boost levels.
2nd) After the tank was drained, I opened 2 drums of MS109, poured them into race fuel containers and then into the tank. That took another 5-10 minutes.
3rd) By now the people that were waiting on me looked like they were getting impatient. Nevertheless, I knew I *STILL* had to take the car out on the road to get the ECU to recognize the change in fuel before racing. But, instead of asking everyone to continue waiting, I suggested that we all head out to the spot. I figured while driving I could give my computer a chance to adjust to the fuel. Over the 10-15 minutes it took us to get to the spot, I did a few pulls to red line and recycled the key several times along the way to get the computer to reset and learn. By the time all of us arrived at the race location I STILL wasn’t full ready and needed some more time to dial in my boost even though it was already pre-set on the Profec.
* After all was said and done, this entire ordeal in setting up my car took me 1 full hour. What a freekin mission! *
Even though my car performed well that night, this "race prep crap" was getting on my last nerve. I was sick and tired of draining and changing fuels, futzing around with ECU adaption and changing boost pressures each time I wanted to run my car. I was forced to do this EVERY SINGLE TIME I went to the drag strip and EVERY SINGLE TIME I went out to a race meet. I became so tired of it, that I practically stopped running race fuel altogether and kept the boost levels down most of the time I drove the car. I found myself driving around on 93 octane practically 99% of the time. I saw this as a total waste!
Here is my take on all of this....(and I’m sure many of you relate)....If I am spending my hard earned money on adding expensive turbos, headers, intercoolers, injectors...the list goes on.....and taking the time to tear apart tune log files to get the most performance out of my car...all that time, all that research, effort and money,.......then I WANT to be able to have ACCESS to that POWER ALL OF THE TIME! ALL DAY - EVERY DAY! If I choose to, I want to be able to reap the benefits of all the work that has been done to my car and drive it like it’s on race gas EVERY SINGLE DAY.
...My options were clear: If I wanted FULL POWER at the pedal 24/7 I had to either run race gas EVERY DAY or convert over to E85 as my daily fuel.
I compared the costs:
As a daily driver, I run through about 5 tanks of gas a month (87.5 gallons of gas) - I drive approx 16,000 miles a year.
MS109 (87.5 Gallons @ $13.50-$10.00 p/gallon) - $1181-$875 a month!
E85 Ethanol (87.5 Gallons @ $2.39 p/gallon) - $209 a month!
Over time, the cost to convert my car to E85 would end up paying for itself times over. Not to mention, I have heard of countless instances where users of E85 are making equal or more power than cars using C16 race gas.
My thoughts:
If I can have a fuel system setup that is more convenient, doesn’t ruin my O2 sensors like leaded fuels, does away with this fuel swapping fiasco, potentially makes more power than that of C16 or MS109 and at the same time SAVES ME MONEY, then I would be NUTS NOT to make the move and convert over to E85...
...And I set out to do just that...
Here were my mods before the E85 Conversion:
Garret GT3076R Turbos
Prototech Intercooler Piping & Turbo Inlet Piping
Prototech Custom Exhaust
Tilton Triple Disk Clutch
Techart Lowering Springs
TPC Racing Front & Rear Sway Bars
Protomotive 4.5" Intercoolers
Protomotive Air Intake System & Y-Pipe
Protomotive MS109 Custom Tune
My E85 Conversion Begins:
I stopped by Prototech, a Porsche tuner I have dealt with for years in Fort Lauderdale to discuss what building an e85 fuel system would entail. After a few conversations between David Hart at Prototech and Todd Knighton at Protomotive here is what we came up with:
We would:
1) Swap out my current 80lb Injectors for a set of 2150cc Injectors from Fuel Injector Clinic
2) Install a custom "in-tank" fuel pump system (to maintain full use of my trunk)
3) Modify Factory Fuel Rails and Fuel Lines to Flow More Volume
4) Fuel Return & Fuel Cooler Mods
5) A variety of other odds and ends to tie everything together
6) A Custom E85 Race Tune
The intent of this fuel system was not only to convert the car over to ethanol, but to also create a fuel system that would give me enough "growing room" in case I decided to add more power in the future.
Here are just a few photos (I'll post more later) of the E85 conversion done by Prototech at their shop:
A Few Parts in the Kit: Modified 997 Turbo Fuel Rails, 2150cc Injectors, Custom Fuel Feed ,Y for Fuel Pick Up For Fuel Pump & Fuel Pump Clamp
Bulkhead Fuel Adapter
Fuel Pump In Tank Shot
Fuel Pump System
Fuel Cooler Adaptor
After Prototech finished up the fuel system, Todd at Protomotive designed a custom tune to get everything running smoothly. Using ScanXL & Durametric Software, he was able to tune my car remotely. It took us a few rounds to work out all the drivability kinks and to dial in optimum timing and fuel until it was driving the way it should.
Even though I am not 100% dialed in yet (I have a few more adjustments I want to make
), everything is running smoothly. The car drives as well as it always has on regular pump gas - the only difference is when you get on it, it feels like an fricken ROCKET.
I have dialed in my low boost setting (for daily driving to 1.5 bar). I know that sounds a bit ridiculous…LOL - Gotta love E85.
Maintaining that 1.5 bar setting, I put together a video of my E85 Porsche 997 Turbo that includes some tachometer clips and some drive bys. Let me know what you think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGe01RRzH-E</EMBED>
After driving the car on ethanol for some time now, its clear that E85 is a more economically sensible option than that of MS109 (or any race fuel for that matter).
But the big question in my mind has always been...Does E85 Make More Power than MS109?
As for the answer...I'm still running some more tests on the car and I'll post the results soon....What I will say is the data I’ve acquired thus far is "QUITE" interesting.
I have a trade show I will be attending (leaving the Aug. 7th) and will be out of town for a week so I will post some videos, 60-130s (in the summer heat) and a bunch more photos of the system as soon as I can.
Keith
My quest to convert my car over to E85 (ethanol) began this one night when a number of cars met up a local race spot. I usually show up in my 997 turbo on 93 octane with one or two 5-gallon drums of MS109 in the trunk "just in case".
Usually it would make sense to come prepared to a race meet, but I had my share of nights when I would show up with $120.00+ of MS109 already in my tank just to find out that there wasn't anyone to run. This was a common occurrence and a terrible waste of race fuel and money. I grew tired of it fast. But that’s not where my frustrations ended...
So this one night at a race spot two separate groups approach me with two cars that were willing to line up and run against me...both of which seemed like they would be a good match for my 997. Both cars were ready to go immediately but I explained to them I needed some time prepare my car. They were willing to wait.
Here is what I had to go through that night to prepare my car to race:
1st) Right there, in the parking lot with everyone waiting, I began draining the 93 octane out of my tank. I did this by connecting a spare fuel hose along with a special tool to the Schrader valve that comes off the factory fuel pump. I then led the fuel hose to several empty fuel containers. I started the engine and let the fuel flow into the containers. The 2 cars waited. Unfortunately, I had 3/4 of a tank that night so it took a good 20-25 minutes before the tank was fully drained. (On a side note, I’m aware that most people are not willing to take the time to drain their tanks. Instead, they usually run their cars around town until their pump gas levels are low and then add in race fuel over the top. However, this is not something I do. I never felt comfortable mixing fuels because even a small amount of pump gas lowers effective octane numbers and increases your risk of detonation. Something I wasn’t willing to do - especially when running high boost levels.
2nd) After the tank was drained, I opened 2 drums of MS109, poured them into race fuel containers and then into the tank. That took another 5-10 minutes.
3rd) By now the people that were waiting on me looked like they were getting impatient. Nevertheless, I knew I *STILL* had to take the car out on the road to get the ECU to recognize the change in fuel before racing. But, instead of asking everyone to continue waiting, I suggested that we all head out to the spot. I figured while driving I could give my computer a chance to adjust to the fuel. Over the 10-15 minutes it took us to get to the spot, I did a few pulls to red line and recycled the key several times along the way to get the computer to reset and learn. By the time all of us arrived at the race location I STILL wasn’t full ready and needed some more time to dial in my boost even though it was already pre-set on the Profec.
* After all was said and done, this entire ordeal in setting up my car took me 1 full hour. What a freekin mission! *
Even though my car performed well that night, this "race prep crap" was getting on my last nerve. I was sick and tired of draining and changing fuels, futzing around with ECU adaption and changing boost pressures each time I wanted to run my car. I was forced to do this EVERY SINGLE TIME I went to the drag strip and EVERY SINGLE TIME I went out to a race meet. I became so tired of it, that I practically stopped running race fuel altogether and kept the boost levels down most of the time I drove the car. I found myself driving around on 93 octane practically 99% of the time. I saw this as a total waste!
Here is my take on all of this....(and I’m sure many of you relate)....If I am spending my hard earned money on adding expensive turbos, headers, intercoolers, injectors...the list goes on.....and taking the time to tear apart tune log files to get the most performance out of my car...all that time, all that research, effort and money,.......then I WANT to be able to have ACCESS to that POWER ALL OF THE TIME! ALL DAY - EVERY DAY! If I choose to, I want to be able to reap the benefits of all the work that has been done to my car and drive it like it’s on race gas EVERY SINGLE DAY.
...My options were clear: If I wanted FULL POWER at the pedal 24/7 I had to either run race gas EVERY DAY or convert over to E85 as my daily fuel.
I compared the costs:
As a daily driver, I run through about 5 tanks of gas a month (87.5 gallons of gas) - I drive approx 16,000 miles a year.
MS109 (87.5 Gallons @ $13.50-$10.00 p/gallon) - $1181-$875 a month!
E85 Ethanol (87.5 Gallons @ $2.39 p/gallon) - $209 a month!
Over time, the cost to convert my car to E85 would end up paying for itself times over. Not to mention, I have heard of countless instances where users of E85 are making equal or more power than cars using C16 race gas.
My thoughts:
If I can have a fuel system setup that is more convenient, doesn’t ruin my O2 sensors like leaded fuels, does away with this fuel swapping fiasco, potentially makes more power than that of C16 or MS109 and at the same time SAVES ME MONEY, then I would be NUTS NOT to make the move and convert over to E85...
...And I set out to do just that...
Here were my mods before the E85 Conversion:
Garret GT3076R Turbos
Prototech Intercooler Piping & Turbo Inlet Piping
Prototech Custom Exhaust
Tilton Triple Disk Clutch
Techart Lowering Springs
TPC Racing Front & Rear Sway Bars
Protomotive 4.5" Intercoolers
Protomotive Air Intake System & Y-Pipe
Protomotive MS109 Custom Tune
My E85 Conversion Begins:
I stopped by Prototech, a Porsche tuner I have dealt with for years in Fort Lauderdale to discuss what building an e85 fuel system would entail. After a few conversations between David Hart at Prototech and Todd Knighton at Protomotive here is what we came up with:
We would:
1) Swap out my current 80lb Injectors for a set of 2150cc Injectors from Fuel Injector Clinic
2) Install a custom "in-tank" fuel pump system (to maintain full use of my trunk)
3) Modify Factory Fuel Rails and Fuel Lines to Flow More Volume
4) Fuel Return & Fuel Cooler Mods
5) A variety of other odds and ends to tie everything together
6) A Custom E85 Race Tune
The intent of this fuel system was not only to convert the car over to ethanol, but to also create a fuel system that would give me enough "growing room" in case I decided to add more power in the future.
Here are just a few photos (I'll post more later) of the E85 conversion done by Prototech at their shop:
A Few Parts in the Kit: Modified 997 Turbo Fuel Rails, 2150cc Injectors, Custom Fuel Feed ,Y for Fuel Pick Up For Fuel Pump & Fuel Pump Clamp
Bulkhead Fuel Adapter
Fuel Pump In Tank Shot
Fuel Pump System
Fuel Cooler Adaptor
After Prototech finished up the fuel system, Todd at Protomotive designed a custom tune to get everything running smoothly. Using ScanXL & Durametric Software, he was able to tune my car remotely. It took us a few rounds to work out all the drivability kinks and to dial in optimum timing and fuel until it was driving the way it should.
Even though I am not 100% dialed in yet (I have a few more adjustments I want to make
), everything is running smoothly. The car drives as well as it always has on regular pump gas - the only difference is when you get on it, it feels like an fricken ROCKET.I have dialed in my low boost setting (for daily driving to 1.5 bar). I know that sounds a bit ridiculous…LOL - Gotta love E85.
Maintaining that 1.5 bar setting, I put together a video of my E85 Porsche 997 Turbo that includes some tachometer clips and some drive bys. Let me know what you think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGe01RRzH-E</EMBED>
After driving the car on ethanol for some time now, its clear that E85 is a more economically sensible option than that of MS109 (or any race fuel for that matter).
But the big question in my mind has always been...Does E85 Make More Power than MS109?
As for the answer...I'm still running some more tests on the car and I'll post the results soon....What I will say is the data I’ve acquired thus far is "QUITE" interesting.
I have a trade show I will be attending (leaving the Aug. 7th) and will be out of town for a week so I will post some videos, 60-130s (in the summer heat
) and a bunch more photos of the system as soon as I can.Keith
Last edited by keithta; Aug 15, 2010 at 11:39 PM.
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Dang man looks amazing! I followed you over from your post in the 996 section. Do you know what your IDC's are at with 1.5 bar? I'm curious how much whp those 2150's can support running E85. They do idle great, which brand are they? Injector Dynamics? Thanks!
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Wow, that's unbelievable. What a clean install. It look's like Factory!!! I love the fact that there's no secondary fuel pumps and space consuming tanks everywhere, truly an awesome job !! I'm deeply impressed , congrat's on the car Kieth its beautiful!! Please keep the video's coming!!
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Keith ..wow. .when you coming down take me for a ride 
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this is awesome. Not enough E85 out here on the east coast in my area. One thing, I think your consumption figures will slide a bit as you'll probably get considerably less MPG with E85 than the race gas, no? IE you'll use more than 87.5 gallons per month of E85. this link here shows a 26% reduction in MPG. Still worth it though, IMO.
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this is awesome. Not enough E85 out here on the east coast in my area. One thing, I think your consumption figures will slide a bit as you'll probably get considerably less MPG with E85 than the race gas, no? IE you'll use more than 87.5 gallons per month of E85. this link here shows a 26% reduction in MPG. Still worth it though, IMO.
Mike
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Keith -
Great write-up and thanks for sharing. Please keep us posted. I think there are several race gas junkies on here that are seriously considering switching to E85.
Don't forget that when you are comparing your cost of driving you take into account that E85 is going to get about 30% worse fuel mileage than pump gas. But when you consider it is only $2.37/gal compared to $10-13/gal of MS109 - I don't think you can lose.
Eric
PS - You're still on stock internals and you are going to run 2.08 bar? What is the difference between the 997TT and a 996GT2 motor? I don't know of anyone running 2 bar on stock internal 996's
Great write-up and thanks for sharing. Please keep us posted. I think there are several race gas junkies on here that are seriously considering switching to E85.
Don't forget that when you are comparing your cost of driving you take into account that E85 is going to get about 30% worse fuel mileage than pump gas. But when you consider it is only $2.37/gal compared to $10-13/gal of MS109 - I don't think you can lose.
Eric
PS - You're still on stock internals and you are going to run 2.08 bar? What is the difference between the 997TT and a 996GT2 motor? I don't know of anyone running 2 bar on stock internal 996's
Last edited by AtomicZ; Aug 3, 2010 at 11:42 AM.
