Difference between ttS and tt?
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A stage 2 mod (exhaust & ECU only) in a PDK car is ok, but a good stage 3 tune (adding intercooler) will bring the torque close to the above limit; the risk is that you might then damage the PDK.
Last edited by cannga; Aug 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM.
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To some, my remark will be heresy but having owned a 2007 Turbo Tip (an anathema), a 2008 Turbo MT, and now a 2011 Turbo S which I have had for 3 months I wish I had not sold the 2008 Turbo. Not a novice when it comes to Porsche ownership as I have driven Porsches for a quarter of a century and the 2008 Turbo was the most enjoyable of all. Cannga speaks the truth; of course, I am a manual die-hard. I wonder if the new MT Turbo uses the same transmission that was coupled to the Mezger.
Jim
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I think Karim was refering to the PDK gear box. PDK's torque rating is first rumored, then tested by Champion (IIRC), to be approximately 795 Nm, or 590 lb-ft.
A stage 2 mod (exhaust & ECU only) in a PDK car is ok, but a good stage 3 tune (adding intercooler) will bring the torque close to the above limit; the risk is that you might then damage the PDK.
A stage 2 mod (exhaust & ECU only) in a PDK car is ok, but a good stage 3 tune (adding intercooler) will bring the torque close to the above limit; the risk is that you might then damage the PDK.
Jim
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Agreed,only 2 mods I am thinking of concern the ecu and suspensions
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To some, my remark will be heresy but having owned a 2007 Turbo Tip (an anathema), a 2008 Turbo MT, and now a 2011 Turbo S which I have had for 3 months I wish I had not sold the 2008 Turbo. Not a novice when it comes to Porsche ownership as I have driven Porsches for a quarter of a century and the 2008 Turbo was the most enjoyable of all. Cannga speaks the truth; of course, I am a manual die-hard. I wonder if the new MT Turbo uses the same transmission that was coupled to the Mezger.
I believe one of the forum sponsors, AWE Tuning, has a manual 997.2 Turbo. I am sure they would know.
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Jim
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...Drove a 2008tt6 for 6 months in Europe and marveled how quickly and effortlessly i could flick my short shifter thru the gears
Nevertheless... i dont miss shifting one bit
I can enjoy being faster now
Last edited by pepper09tt; Aug 27, 2010 at 12:45 PM.
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997 C2, C2S, C4, C4S: Aisin
997 GT3, GT2, Turbo: Getrag
Gear shifting in the Turbo is wonderful, particularly with the short/sport shifter kit -- SSK (recommended without reservation!). What some people do complain about in the 997.1 Turbo is the clutch; it is heavily assisted and feels so, spongy and light. GT2/GT3 clutch has less assist but then here Porsche goes completely the other way: way too heavy if you are to use car as a daily driver.
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I am having my clearbra installed on the 4th! Are you doing the full hood full fender?
Will
Will
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Ouch....I just picked up my S on Monday night in anticipation of my 40th birthday! All I need is a 18 y/o girlfriend...
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Hi Jim, the non Mezger engine 997 uses Japanese-made Aisin gear box, so:
997 C2, C2S, C4, C4S: Aisin
997 GT3, GT2, Turbo: Getrag
Gear shifting in the Turbo is wonderful, particularly with the short/sport shifter kit -- SSK (recommended without reservation!). What some people do complain about in the 997.1 Turbo is the clutch; it is heavily assisted and feels so, spongy and light. GT2/GT3 clutch has less assist but then here Porsche goes completely the other way: way too heavy if you are to use car as a daily driver.
997 C2, C2S, C4, C4S: Aisin
997 GT3, GT2, Turbo: Getrag
Gear shifting in the Turbo is wonderful, particularly with the short/sport shifter kit -- SSK (recommended without reservation!). What some people do complain about in the 997.1 Turbo is the clutch; it is heavily assisted and feels so, spongy and light. GT2/GT3 clutch has less assist but then here Porsche goes completely the other way: way too heavy if you are to use car as a daily driver.
Jim
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^^^^Jim, you're welcome. Up until 2010, 911 Turbo/GT2/GT3 all use the Mezger engine, named after one of the most famous and most important engineers in all of Porsche's history, Hans Mezger. Mezger is head engineer for Porsche motorsport/race engines for 4 decades, starting in mid 1950, and was responsible for the engine designs of a majority of Porsche victorious entries around the world in those decades. In other words, he was partly responsible for making the young and small (then) Porsche company become famous.
In 2010, Porsche uses a newer engine for the Turbo, while keeping the Mezger engine in GT2 and GT3.
The "Mezger" engine is based on a race engine designed by Mezger, essentially a boxer 6 with dry sump and the oft-mentioned "GT-1" engine block. Because of its racing pedigree, its robustness and reliability are unquestioned. This is why some/many enthusiasts would argue this older engine in 2009-and-before Turbo will remain the best engine ever put in a Turbo, with what is "best" obviously debatable and controversial to proponents of either side, old vs. new. I don't recall the exact number but the Mezger engine is rumored to cost something like $20k-30k (?? anyone pls correct as needed) more than the non-Mezger flat 6, and is probably less "environmentally friendly" LOL than newer designs, so unlikely will ever be used again in mass production 911.
In 2010, Porsche uses a newer engine for the Turbo, while keeping the Mezger engine in GT2 and GT3.
The "Mezger" engine is based on a race engine designed by Mezger, essentially a boxer 6 with dry sump and the oft-mentioned "GT-1" engine block. Because of its racing pedigree, its robustness and reliability are unquestioned. This is why some/many enthusiasts would argue this older engine in 2009-and-before Turbo will remain the best engine ever put in a Turbo, with what is "best" obviously debatable and controversial to proponents of either side, old vs. new. I don't recall the exact number but the Mezger engine is rumored to cost something like $20k-30k (?? anyone pls correct as needed) more than the non-Mezger flat 6, and is probably less "environmentally friendly" LOL than newer designs, so unlikely will ever be used again in mass production 911.
Last edited by cannga; Aug 28, 2010 at 03:04 PM.
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^^^^Jim, you're welcome. Up until 2010, 911 Turbo/GT2/GT3 all use the Mezger engine, named after one of the most famous and most important engineers in all of Porsche's history, Hans Mezger. Mezger is head engineer for Porsche motorsport/race engines for 4 decades, starting in mid 1950, and was responsible for the engine designs of a majority of Porsche victorious entries around the world in those decades. In other words, he was partly responsible for making the young and small (then) Porsche company become famous.
In 2010, Porsche uses a newer engine for the Turbo, while keeping the Mezger engine in GT2 and GT3.
The "Mezger" engine is based on a race engine designed by Mezger, essentially a boxer 6 with dry sump and the oft-mentioned "GT-1" engine block. Because of its racing pedigree, its robustness and reliability are unquestioned. This is why some/many enthusiasts would argue this older engine in 2009-and-before Turbo will remain the best engine ever put in a Turbo, with what is "best" obviously debatable and controversial to proponents of either side, old vs. new. I don't recall the exact number but the Mezger engine is rumored to cost something like $20k-30k (?? anyone pls correct as needed) more than the non-Mezger flat 6, and is probably less "environmentally friendly" LOL than newer designs, so unlikely will ever be used again in mass production 911.
In 2010, Porsche uses a newer engine for the Turbo, while keeping the Mezger engine in GT2 and GT3.
The "Mezger" engine is based on a race engine designed by Mezger, essentially a boxer 6 with dry sump and the oft-mentioned "GT-1" engine block. Because of its racing pedigree, its robustness and reliability are unquestioned. This is why some/many enthusiasts would argue this older engine in 2009-and-before Turbo will remain the best engine ever put in a Turbo, with what is "best" obviously debatable and controversial to proponents of either side, old vs. new. I don't recall the exact number but the Mezger engine is rumored to cost something like $20k-30k (?? anyone pls correct as needed) more than the non-Mezger flat 6, and is probably less "environmentally friendly" LOL than newer designs, so unlikely will ever be used again in mass production 911.
non Mezger. Do you think it is a much better value given the quality of the engine? I am surprised I have not seen any threads comparing the two as this would seem a key difference in the tt engine 'concept' especially if P is 'cheapening down' on the build quality while the sales price of the cars continues into the stratosphere.
Jim
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I hope it gets sorted out.
See, this is the problem:
In stock form, the 997.2 PDK will just about obliterate any car you are likely to encounter on the road, if that car is stock too.
And therein lies the problem. In Kuwait, almost every single car who's owner is likely to want to run against you is modified, and most, quite heavily.
That means that you end up losing to 90% of the cars out there
!Does not do our cars justice!
When in "manual" mode there is no limitation on power holding (torque holding) in stock form.....you can get it up as much as you desire.
That should not enter into the equation.....whether you want manual or PDK for other reasons is a different question
Also if heavy modding is your objective that's another discussion.
That should not enter into the equation.....whether you want manual or PDK for other reasons is a different question
Also if heavy modding is your objective that's another discussion.
Besides, if your foot is on the gas to the metal, it'll shift even in manual mode unless you override before shifting point. When you're running against someone, there are too many variables to keep a very careful and watchful eye on and that means I don't want to risk having the box try to shift by itself and risk a $15K tranny.
I think this must enter the equation. If you are a die hard fan of either box, then the decision is easy. If you're on the fence about PDK and you would like to upgrade you car's performance to , say, modified VTGs, you PDK will simply not hold it together, at least for now. And from the way things look with the complexity of the PDK and its electronics, it might take a while for a proper mod to emerge.
I think Karim was refering to the PDK gear box. PDK's torque rating is first rumored, then tested by Champion (IIRC), to be approximately 795 Nm, or 590 lb-ft.
A stage 2 mod (exhaust & ECU only) in a PDK car is ok, but a good stage 3 tune (adding intercooler) will bring the torque close to the above limit; the risk is that you might then damage the PDK.
A stage 2 mod (exhaust & ECU only) in a PDK car is ok, but a good stage 3 tune (adding intercooler) will bring the torque close to the above limit; the risk is that you might then damage the PDK.
The PDK is rated at anywhere between 570 to 590 lbft of torque.
At these limits, the PDK gearbox begins to slip its clutches.
Being a closed box, your Porsche dealer will tell you that it cannot be repaired and you have to replace it.
Since the car would be modded to beyond the 590lbft limit, chances are replacement will not be covered by warranty.
That's $15K for the box. OUCH!
To other, we don't mind tinkering a bit with Porsche's engineering!
All I was saying was, if you fall into the second category, you need to be aware of the limitations of the PDK box ahead of your purchase. That's all.
These limitations will take time to be fixed by tuners and the fix will not be a cheap one.
