Rain & Shine at LS with RE-11s
#378
05-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,273
Rep Power: 191 
Cannga,
As mentioned on your Bilstein thread; I had made reference to first upgrading to adjustable control arms for a greater range of adjustability as apposed to installing "fixed" or "semi-fixed" camber plates to gain an additional -1.0 to -1.5 degrees.
Over the course of time I have been pushing my car to the limits of its mechanical grip and slowly replacing and upgrading parts as I do so. As you know this year I made the leap from a very capable, but slightly tweaked Champion Motorsports suspension package that utilizes the OEM struts, CMS custom wound springs, CMS sway bars, CMS shock tower brace, Front RSS ACA's, and TRG Drop links to a full blown custom CMS Ohlins C/O adjustable system. The conversion also included solid camber plates which added and additional 1.0-1.5 degrees of negative camber. Primarily focusing on the front end of the vehicle to decrease understeer and improve even tire wear across the surface. We have slowly been making great progress in doing so. However, with that being said...now we are seeing oversteer characteristics and the need for additional negative rear camber above what the solid rear camber plates had afforded us. Also, with the third alignment the rear tires are now seeing too much rollover on the outside, even when making additional compression adjustments to the rear shocks.. Therefore, the vehicle is currently in the shop for its 4th alignment since the install and five days of track testing.
New components being installed to make the needed adjustments: Porsche Motorsports Adjustable CUP arms as well as new front & rear RSS adjustable toe arms. The current toe arms are worn out, and can no longer hold the adjustments made from side to side while setting the car up.
The Motorsports CUP ACA's differ from the GT3/GT3RS/GT2RS arms with the use of solid thrust arm bushings as well as solid monoball control arm end bushings.
Not the prettiest components, but they are surprisingly light and VERY strong!!! Hopefully this will get me through the rest of the season....
As mentioned on your Bilstein thread; I had made reference to first upgrading to adjustable control arms for a greater range of adjustability as apposed to installing "fixed" or "semi-fixed" camber plates to gain an additional -1.0 to -1.5 degrees.
Over the course of time I have been pushing my car to the limits of its mechanical grip and slowly replacing and upgrading parts as I do so. As you know this year I made the leap from a very capable, but slightly tweaked Champion Motorsports suspension package that utilizes the OEM struts, CMS custom wound springs, CMS sway bars, CMS shock tower brace, Front RSS ACA's, and TRG Drop links to a full blown custom CMS Ohlins C/O adjustable system. The conversion also included solid camber plates which added and additional 1.0-1.5 degrees of negative camber. Primarily focusing on the front end of the vehicle to decrease understeer and improve even tire wear across the surface. We have slowly been making great progress in doing so. However, with that being said...now we are seeing oversteer characteristics and the need for additional negative rear camber above what the solid rear camber plates had afforded us. Also, with the third alignment the rear tires are now seeing too much rollover on the outside, even when making additional compression adjustments to the rear shocks.. Therefore, the vehicle is currently in the shop for its 4th alignment since the install and five days of track testing.
New components being installed to make the needed adjustments: Porsche Motorsports Adjustable CUP arms as well as new front & rear RSS adjustable toe arms. The current toe arms are worn out, and can no longer hold the adjustments made from side to side while setting the car up.
The Motorsports CUP ACA's differ from the GT3/GT3RS/GT2RS arms with the use of solid thrust arm bushings as well as solid monoball control arm end bushings.
Not the prettiest components, but they are surprisingly light and VERY strong!!! Hopefully this will get me through the rest of the season....
#379
05-10-2013, 09:13 AM
Cannga,
1. As mentioned on your Bilstein thread; I had made reference to first upgrading to adjustable control arms for a greater range of adjustability as apposed to installing "fixed" or "semi-fixed" camber plates to gain an additional -1.0 to -1.5 degrees.
... Primarily focusing on the front end of the vehicle to decrease understeer and improve even tire wear across the surface. We have slowly been making great progress in doing so. However, with that being said...now we are seeing oversteer characteristics and the need for additional negative rear camber above what the solid rear camber plates had afforded us. Also, with the third alignment the rear tires are now seeing too much rollover on the outside, even when making additional compression adjustments to the rear shocks.. Therefore, the vehicle is currently in the shop for its 4th alignment since the install and five days of track testing.
2. New components being installed to make the needed adjustments: Porsche Motorsports Adjustable CUP arms as well as new front & rear RSS adjustable toe arms. ...
3. The Motorsports CUP ACA's differ from the GT3/GT3RS/GT2RS arms with the use of solid thrust arm bushings as well as solid monoball control arm end bushings.
1. As mentioned on your Bilstein thread; I had made reference to first upgrading to adjustable control arms for a greater range of adjustability as apposed to installing "fixed" or "semi-fixed" camber plates to gain an additional -1.0 to -1.5 degrees.
... Primarily focusing on the front end of the vehicle to decrease understeer and improve even tire wear across the surface. We have slowly been making great progress in doing so. However, with that being said...now we are seeing oversteer characteristics and the need for additional negative rear camber above what the solid rear camber plates had afforded us. Also, with the third alignment the rear tires are now seeing too much rollover on the outside, even when making additional compression adjustments to the rear shocks.. Therefore, the vehicle is currently in the shop for its 4th alignment since the install and five days of track testing.
2. New components being installed to make the needed adjustments: Porsche Motorsports Adjustable CUP arms as well as new front & rear RSS adjustable toe arms. ...
3. The Motorsports CUP ACA's differ from the GT3/GT3RS/GT2RS arms with the use of solid thrust arm bushings as well as solid monoball control arm end bushings.
God have mercy; I could sense some serious cornering speeds involved in your discussion LOL. Beautiful component and pictures! Some questions for you pls:1. Back to camber plate. So it adds a fixed -1 to my current setting, meaning, if I am now at -.6 camber would become -1.6 jwith camber plate, if I am at -1, it becomes -2? In other words, even though it adds a fixed -1, a range of camber is still available, from -1 to -2.2 right?
Would camber plate replaces the rubber/PU bushing of exisiting coilover's top assembly, with pure metal interface? Is that why you mentioned (? I think) it would increase noise/harshness?
2. Lower control arm LCA - you already have front LCA, now adding rear? For more rear camber? This is because outside of rear tire is showing more wear?
3. Motorsport versus GT3 LCA's versus stock LCA: is there any physical/dimensional differences between the 3 arms? If I add monoball and thrust arm bushing to GT3 LCA, then it is equivalent of Motorsport arm?
Last edited by cannga; 05-10-2013 at 09:18 AM.
#380
05-10-2013, 07:49 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,273
Rep Power: 191
LOL !! 
1) "a range of camber is still available, from -1 to -2.2 right" Yes that is correct. Your negative camber will still have a full range of adjustability. However, you will now lose 1º from your positive camber or starting point. The range is technically the same, but your starting and end points have now shifted more toward the negative side of the spectrum....if that makes any sense.
2) This is because outside of rear tire is showing more wear? Correct, also because the vehicle has now developed a slight oversteer just before mid-turn and while accelerating smoothly out of the turn. The tires are also rolling over / scrubbing in past the sidewall wear indicators.
3) If I add monoball and thrust arm bushing to GT3 LCA, then it is equivalent of Motorsport arm? Pretty darn close....that was an option...to buy new GT3 LCA's and do exactly that. Which would have saved me $200-$300. The MS versions are lighter, stronger, and proven to take the abuse. I figured since I was all solid up front I might as well go all solid in the rear. Regarding the three different arms (RSS, GT3, and MS). I would imagine dimensionally they are all the same since they are all designed to work within the same mounting parameters. Difference being, supplied bushings, weight, forging and casting techniques, and the RSS has replaceable spherical bearings whereas the Porsche versions are both fixed (pros and cons here, which I prefer not to get into).
The Motorsports are the most expensive, next in line are the RSS's, and then GT3's which will need to have the bushing upgrades. The bushing upgrade then puts the GT3's cost wise above the RSS's.
Enjoy your weekend!
Cheers,
VID
1) "a range of camber is still available, from -1 to -2.2 right" Yes that is correct. Your negative camber will still have a full range of adjustability. However, you will now lose 1º from your positive camber or starting point. The range is technically the same, but your starting and end points have now shifted more toward the negative side of the spectrum....if that makes any sense.
2) This is because outside of rear tire is showing more wear? Correct, also because the vehicle has now developed a slight oversteer just before mid-turn and while accelerating smoothly out of the turn. The tires are also rolling over / scrubbing in past the sidewall wear indicators.
3) If I add monoball and thrust arm bushing to GT3 LCA, then it is equivalent of Motorsport arm? Pretty darn close....that was an option...to buy new GT3 LCA's and do exactly that. Which would have saved me $200-$300. The MS versions are lighter, stronger, and proven to take the abuse. I figured since I was all solid up front I might as well go all solid in the rear. Regarding the three different arms (RSS, GT3, and MS). I would imagine dimensionally they are all the same since they are all designed to work within the same mounting parameters. Difference being, supplied bushings, weight, forging and casting techniques, and the RSS has replaceable spherical bearings whereas the Porsche versions are both fixed (pros and cons here, which I prefer not to get into).
The Motorsports are the most expensive, next in line are the RSS's, and then GT3's which will need to have the bushing upgrades. The bushing upgrade then puts the GT3's cost wise above the RSS's.
Enjoy your weekend!
Cheers,
VID
#381
05-11-2013, 12:45 PM
VID, the progression of your suspension tuning is interesting indeed. What camber settings front and rear are you at now?
Thanks for the excellent answers on camber plate and the various LCA's. I finally have an idea of how camber plate works and the exact differences between GT3 and Motorsport LCA's. Pro's and con's... hmm.. Now I *really* have to look up replaceable spherical bearing :-).
Finally, from a self professed "pixel peeper":-): very nice pictures, transparent and sharpness/contrast/etc. just right.
Thanks for the excellent answers on camber plate and the various LCA's. I finally have an idea of how camber plate works and the exact differences between GT3 and Motorsport LCA's. Pro's and con's... hmm.. Now I *really* have to look up replaceable spherical bearing :-).
Finally, from a self professed "pixel peeper":-): very nice pictures, transparent and sharpness/contrast/etc. just right.
Last edited by cannga; 05-11-2013 at 12:50 PM.
#382
05-15-2013, 01:15 AM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,273
Rep Power: 191
Its the sum of the parts that make it whole...we shall put this theory to test this coming Monday at LS.
Picked the car up tonight with all the new goods installed including some fresh R6's. What I thought would be the forth alignment since the original install has now become the fifth...ugh!!!
Picked the car up tonight with all the new goods installed including some fresh R6's. What I thought would be the forth alignment since the original install has now become the fifth...ugh!!!
#386
05-15-2013, 06:54 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,445
Rep Power: 99
Looks fantastic Vid and should really shine at LS on Monday.
Can't wait to get back out there and see if these new GT2RS ICs make a difference for heatsoak. While TC was doing the R/R they noticed that one of my hoses wasn't connected all the way and believe a source for boost leak.
Can't wait to get back out there and see if these new GT2RS ICs make a difference for heatsoak. While TC was doing the R/R they noticed that one of my hoses wasn't connected all the way and believe a source for boost leak.
#388
05-15-2013, 10:35 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,445
Rep Power: 99
Yes great day indeed especially after fixing this-
Drivers side lower boost hose unconnected and has been for some time. Must have been secure enough to keep most of my boost?
Drivers side lower boost hose unconnected and has been for some time. Must have been secure enough to keep most of my boost?
#389
05-22-2013, 11:47 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,273
Rep Power: 191
BABY STEPS:
F1: 1:37.67 with a slow start and finish out of T11, not to mention traffic.....this could've easily been a 1:36.XXX. The car has so much more in it. I wasn't even pushing it that hard. Put some headphones on and give it a listen.
EH: Got any Vids from Monday?
A-80: How about your Tuesday?....or was that TOP SECRET....!!!!...???? My Tuesday was ; ]
Cheers,
Until we meet again....VID
F1: 1:37.67 with a slow start and finish out of T11, not to mention traffic.....this could've easily been a 1:36.XXX. The car has so much more in it. I wasn't even pushing it that hard. Put some headphones on and give it a listen.
EH: Got any Vids from Monday?
A-80: How about your Tuesday?....or was that TOP SECRET....!!!!...???? My Tuesday was ; ]
Cheers,
Until we meet again....VID
#390
05-23-2013, 08:59 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,445
Rep Power: 99
My first official race with CFRA and I manage to offload my first lap at T2! Takes me 1/2 lap to get my **** together but still a fantastic time. Second lap is my fastest during the race although pretty boring as the RSR is way out if reach ahead of me.
This stuff is too fun... and addicting! Excellent driving Vid and took the WIN again this week!
This stuff is too fun... and addicting! Excellent driving Vid and took the WIN again this week!