Hey Guys!

Firstly I’d like to thank everyone on this forum for the very valuable information they provided me with. After over a year of reading it’s time for me to post my first thread.

A little about my car before I get into the issue I am facing. It’s a 997.1 turbo (2009), has been stock up until a few months ago. Car is under warranty from local Porsche dealer, no mechanical issues whatsoever. I live in Dubai and the temperature tends to reach 50 degrees Celsius this time of year (summer) and drops to 20 in winter.

Warranty has always been a major concern for me; this explains my choice of choosing bolt on modifications as they can be easily removed when facing a warranty claim, also having all the bolt-on modifications done before a tune allows me to get one comprehensive tune for my car versus having to get a retune/remap with each mod.

The only modifications I have installed are as follows:
1. Techart sport exhaust 60mm
2. Fabspeed headers
3. IPD 74mm plenum
4. Forge diverter valves
5. BMC drop in filter.
6. 2010 LED face lift (rear bumper with LED’s and front LED)

The Questions I have are:
1. Can having too many bolt-on modifications without tuning the ECU/DME have a negative effect or no effect on performance?
2. Is it possible that from these modifications I have increased the airflow or turbo boost or something along those lines that my stock ECU is having difficulty coping-up/reading?

Why do I think I am having a problem?
When accelerating hard:
1. Before mods: consistent boost at around 16Psi with the small over-boost arrow (No fluctuations, consistent 16PSI). The car felt fast.
2. After mods: 17Psi then goes down to 15Psi or less with the over-boost arrow (but boost shows fluctuations and no consistency). The car feels average i don’t feel the same kick from the turbos.
3. Overall I do not feel the performance gains I expected from the mods. I feel the car is slower than stock but more responsive; this all might be just psychological but I wanted to get it cleared.


Vbox Results (KM/H) post modifications (this is the first time I Vbox’ed my car, a few days ago):

i. 0-100: 3.9seconds
ii. 100-200: 9.5seconds
iii. 0-200: 13.4seconds
iv. 1/4mile: 12.2seconds @ 190.3 km/h

This test cannot be very reliable as I have not done a V-Box test post mods and tires were pretty worn out. But I decided to post, as it may help.

¼ mile drag results:

1. March 2012 (Mid Spring): Best time was a 11.57 @193.78km/h, 0-60ft in 1.718 seconds.
2. September 2012 (Late Summer): Best time was 11.79 @190.13km/h, 0-60ft in 1.745 seconds.

Some of the solutions I have thought of:
1- Boost leak test to determine if I have any leaks.
2- I checked my turbo actuators, both are fine.
2-I have a doubt that one or more of the modifications are having negative effects/no effects, but this is just a speculation.
3- Performing a Durametric test (I have no experience whatsoever with this device or its readings).
4- Maybe it is Time to get an ECU tune to get everything to work properly.

Is it time?
Are the issues I am facing related to the stock ECU; is it time to get an upgrade? Will this upgrade solve the issues?

Even though I have done quite a few bolts on modifications I am not convinced or satisfied with the performance gains, I expected to feel/realize more power. I am looking for solutions or any advice that any one can give me. Please excuse the length of the thread, I didn’t want to leave anything out.

 

Yes with those modifications (though bolt on) you need to get a tune. I would not push the car until you get the tune. You can see that the car is pulling timing/boost and etc. to essentially save the engine. Given the heat in Dubai and the modifications, you definitely don't want the car to run LEAN which could very well make engine go kaboom.

I suggest you find a respectable tuning shop that can custom tune your car for the modifications you have.

Cheers.

 

I agree that the stock tune is not going to have the correct maps to support a free flowing exhaust and intake.

It simply does not know they are there, and how to compensate for them. I would tune the car with Softronic and that way you can keep your warranty, as the tune can be removed without a trace.

Mike

 

Salam Tareq
Get rid if
headers...No power gain and will crack sooner or later.
plenum...No power gain plus need to make it is fit perfect and tight.

Go back with stock headers and plenum bro then get good tune plus install yellow springs for Forge DV's

 

There could be a leak. Surely a tune will help that car a lot. The parts is question can be evaluated after the car has a proper tune. There are a few options that allow you to go back to stock. I would do intercoolers too. Assuming there are no , major issues the heat can have a lot to do with everything.

 

Heat is your worst enemy...besides not having a properly tuned car. As others have mentioned, you could have a leak...but a good tune, would probably wake that car up in a hurry.

 

A good tune to take advantage of all those upgrades may required you getting colder plugs depending on mileage. Don't know if you are TIP or M6spd but a clutch too from all the added power for the manual.

 

Most of those mods you have won't provide any power gains apart from the free-flowing exhaust. As said above get rid of the headers and plenum. The loss in boost you see indicates a leak. An exhaust DOES NEVER make the 997 turbo run leaner! The car adapts to the exhaust as much as it adapts to larger intercoolers etc. The lamda sensors are target sensors in the turbo, which means the car makes the essential adjustments by itself through the ECU. The ECU gathers all information needed from the sensors and richens or leans out the AF ratio accordingly. The engine does not blow because of the addition of an exhaust or because of an AM plenum. The only "problem" you might have right now with these bolt ons is that you wasted some money on most of the parts without an upgraded ECU.

 

Hey Guys, thank you all for the replies! really appreciate it!

Some of you mentioned removing the Headers and Plenums? from my point of view if they are not negatively effecting performance and are already on the car then what harm will it do if i keep them on? are there any side effects for the AM headers and plenum that i am not aware of?

I am considering getting the 911 tuning boost leak test kit, any one have any experience on these? however this test is done through the turbos, will this allow me to pressurize the whole set up? (plenum, Dv's etc); http://www.911tuning.com/997-Turbo/M...ter-p-128.html

No one mentioned the use of a Durametric? will purchasing one benefit me in determining any useful information on my cars performance?

But back to my main question: Is it possible that my bolt-on modifications are having a negative or no effect on my performance due to not having an upgraded ECU tune?

Note: Car is a tiptronic, major service has not been carried out yet so my plugs have not been changed, however major service due in around 1,000kms

 

"No one mentioned the use of a Durametric? will purchasing one benefit me in determining any useful information on my cars performance?"

Get yourself one, they are great for figuring out what is going on. However, I suggest you not get the professional as it allows you to make adjustments which you should not do if you don't know what you are doing. This is my recommendation and this is how I am doing it. I think I may be ready after a year of use to move to the professional.

"But back to my main question: Is it possible that my bolt-on modifications are having a negative or no effect on my performance due to not having an upgraded ECU tune?"

As stated before, YES

 

Salam bro , how are you ?
Well get a good tune with durmatric cable and you can data log the car anytime you want ! You can check everythings , even you can find if the car has foults or not !

Why you should have a tune ? Well you must let the ecu adapt to all the new modifactions You did on the car



Yousef

 

Salaam

My advice would be to first and foremost upgrade to gt2 intercoolers. U will notice more consistent power with better intercoolers in the dessert heat. Whilst installing, get the pressure test done.

I agree with others, the headers and ipd gains are debateable, but dont throw away good money after bad by swapping back to stock.

For your tune, decide from now wether u ever see yourself upgrading turbos down the road. If u do, them get a tune that allows u to tweak down the road for future mods. If not, the. I reomend Apr. u can flash back to stock program in seconds using the cruise stalk.

 

The aftermarket headers will crack soon or later. small crack could go inside the turbo/engine and kill it. The plenum will decrease throttle response.

ECU is a must now! Durametric is a great tool!

 

Hello Tareq,
The stock headers of the 997 turbo are unbeatable. There is no substitute for them even if you run high boost tunes! Larger headers are slowing the spooling of your turbos down. Your car hesitates then. If you want to listen to me throw them away EVEN IF YOU INTENT TO RAISE BOOST. Most AM headers showed NO GAINS at all even in heavily modified cars. You might need them to increase flow in 900 or 1000 hp crank applications. I had a lot of discussions with tuners around the world regarding headers and intercoolers. MOST of the products in the market concerning those 2 items ARE garbage. And the dyno proves it all as well as data logging accordingly. Not only they don't offer any gains they tend to create problems too. For example, there's a big difference between increasing flow running upgraded intercoolers and cooling your IAT down. A lot of AM intercoolers increased flow but they were proved to be worse than stock ones at cooling.
Now, with the plenum, you don't need it without a tune. It does nothing at all. You install this item when you upgrade your turbos close to 700 crank hp. Who suggested these mods to you? Was it a personal choice or it was a tuner? Because if it was a "tuner" I would definitely walk away from him without any second thoughts at all.
Before you perform any tests to the car check your Y-pipe hose at TB. I think that the problem is there. Also I don't think that your spark plugs have a problem without a tune, but it wouldn't harm to have a look there as well. But if you want to listen to me throw away ALL parts apart from the exhaust and the drop in filter. Have a tune as well... It will transform the car and I am pretty sure you'll like it a lot. It'll become an addiction! Just my 2 cents...

 

I agree with what was said, your mods wont increase power much at all..maybe 20HP max which even the best of butt dynos wont measure when your talking 480HP stock. time to flash it and never look back!