Excellent thread:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-research.html

 

One huge reason to get the 997.1TT:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ess-again.html

 

I've owned both and the 997.2 is a better car all the way around. As time goes on age and mileage will dictate value, mods beyond exhaust will detract from the value IMHO. Bottom line all terrific cars, Porsche hasn't nurtured this following by making cars worse
or less reliable.
Buy the nicest car you can afford and enjoy it.

 

I was at a track day last week with several other Porsche Turbos. I was the only one with PCCB. Towards the middle of the day, everyone was complaining about brake fade and sponginess. Not me. I was just as strong on my first lap as I was on my 30th. I could never go back to steel rotors now that I have experienced the awesomeness of the ceramics. They really are bad ***! Plus, less weight and great looks.

 

I just like the idea of having a different engine than all the other 997's...i mean why is the turbo so much more than the non turbo if it has the same engine block? To me its all about the motor, and the cost of the GT1 is much higher...you get what you pay for. At least you use to...now the bean counters have won.

 

My point exactly. I've seen a few people ref. resale value but I am not concerned with that as I am never going to sell this car; I'm going to drive it. The GF (who makes more than I do) has mentioned she wants us to get a weekend toy in a couple of years after we get a new house. I suppose I'll let her have her way and worry about resale then

Thank you all for the great info.

 

Very good observations. Big red is a *great* brake but PCCB holds some significant advantages:
*35 lbs reduction in unsprung and rotational weight (very important that reduction is at the spinning big disc (angular momentum affecting steering as well, look up gyroscope effect))
*Initial bite as if stopped by the hands of God.
*No fade.

The difference in initial bite between big red and PCCB's is very easily noticeable, even for the most novice of drivers, and even on street. If anyone cannot feel it, there is something wrong. I have switched between big red and PCCB 911's several times (back to back test) and this difference is always easily noticeable.

Ironically and paradoxically, it is that last character, of no fade, that probably is primary cause of damage in PCCB at the track. The possible scenario: Whereas iron brake tells driver to stop when temp increases (by fading), PCCB doesn't do that so inexperienced drivers continue to drive and take brake system to above max operating temperature, subsequently frying the pad, then the disc.
For street driving the reliability of gen 2 PCCB has been remarkable (look in this forum and see if anyone has even come close to replacing disc). "Street rumor" is that you should replace PCCB system's pads at 35-40k, whether or not it needs to be replaced, and that's what I do.

 

OP...if you are not planning on tracking the car often, and you are not planning on going mod-crazy...then you can't go wrong w/either one. However, at the price range you note, chances are you will end up on a 997.1...and be fully happy with it.

 

One should keep in mind, the main reason to built a new engine was, it s cheaper. Now, why is that??

997TT2 comes with a by far better exhaust. And the 4wheel ratio front/back is also a lot better.

 

Agreed

 

I'm an engine guy. The electronics and frills are not big to me since this is a weekend car that I want to experience purist sensations in. So if you are going to DD, go .2 with the PDK. If you are going to do very basic bolt ons .2. This combo will yield mid 10 second runs all day.
If you are a wack job like me, and want gut crunching torque and sub 6 second 60 to 130s, go .1

Does anyone have links to any big power 997.2s? I mean 800hp and up.

On a different note, BMW did something similar going from the N54 engine to the N55 in 2010/11. When they launched the 1M, they revived the 54 motor, similar to what Porsche did with the RS and the Metzger. Rumors were that the 55 was a cost savings measure, which happened right around 2009 to 2010. Perhaps a trend in the industry. I know the Metzger was very costly to manufacture.

 

No proof but no tuning above 650hp either.

I would go (and went) for manual 997.1, the last "classic" Turbo. I do not care about LED taillights (in fact I prefer good ole 997.1 lights, but mine are full-red) and about updated electronics (I do miss USB exit, but I can live without it).

Also, I notice that finding 997.2T with manual transmission where I am at (and also in Germany) is very difficult, most 997.2s are with PDK.

 

you are a lucky guy with such a GF

 

It is definitely true at this point that the 997.1TT easier and cheaper to tune straight out of the box. Does it mean 997.2TT cannot be tuned? No. The DFI engine is here to stay and while the tuners have had decades with the GT1 engine, they have only worked on the DFI for a year or so. I am doing a full engine rebuild of a 930 Turbo engine and have replaced many OEM parts with aftermarket parts to strengthen it further. I'm sure tuners will have aftermarket parts for the DFI as time goes on. Another limitation is the PDK gearbox. Since most 997.2TTs and all 997.2TTSs, come with PDK, tuners also have to make sure that the PDK gearbox can take higher hp applications. What I'm saying is that the argument now is that DFI can't do more that 650+ hp, but I believe that it's a matter of time that we will see 700 hp, 800 hp, and so on. Price may be an issue, but I'm guessing it'll be do-able.

As for the debate of the last "classic" Turbo, it's definitely the 997TT, but only time will tell if it's the 997.1 or the 997.2. What's for sure is that the 991TTT will be superior but very different. But once again, if history proves itself, the final iteration of the model usually takes the prize, unless of course the DFI self-distructs over time. I'll still place my bet on the 997.2TT, especially since production numbers will be much lower. Either way, I believe that either owning the 997.1TT or the 997.2TT manual won't make us any money cause it'll never be "classic" like the classics, but it'd be a fun 911 to own since the 991 will be a completely different beast with the electronics.

To further support your point that the 997TT will be the last "classic" turbo, the 991 will have a "pointless" manual gearbox in my opinion since it's based off of a heavier PDK gearbox, so in a manual (if it is offered) you lose shift speed vs. the faster computer operated PDK while you have to deal with the heavier weight of the PDK transmission even in the manual.

Back to the OP, both .1 and .2 are great cars. Can't go wrong with either. I have been arguing for the .2 simply to offer another side to the debate, but I believe both are excellent cars and both to me are very similar with small tradeoffs. Price-wise, can't go wrong with the .1. One thing I think we can all agree on is that the 997TT is a car we would all love. I for sure will be keeping mine. As Peskarik put it, and I agree, last "classic" 911 Turbo. Before the computers take over.

 

Some information on Mezger, the engineer responsible for the GT1 engine, and the reason why the 997.1 Turbo engine is also referred to as the Mezger engine (there is no t on this Mezger). There is also a book on him (!) if anyone is interested http://www.amazon.com/Porsche-Me-Mezger-Peter-Morgan/dp/1906712085

The info has nothing to do with performance, but as in all hobbies it's fun to know the stories behind the scene. Mezger is a legendary figure, top even among the many legendary figures associated with Porsche. This is what I referred to as "pride of ownership" of 997.1 - legendary engine by legendary engineer. The incredible racing pedigree doesn't hurt either.

My dream car? 991 Turbo with Mezger engine. LOL

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Legendary Porsche Engineer turns 80 Stuttgart.
http://porschebahn.wordpress.com/200...tone-birthday/
The former race and development engineer at Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Hans Mezger, will be celebrating his 80th birthday. On the subject of this celebration, Porsche development chairman Wolfgang Dürheimer said, “Hans Mezger is one of the most important engineers in our company’s history. For four decades, our racing cars won with engines designed by Hans Mezger and made the Porsche name a synonym for sports performance around the world.”
Hans Mezger was born on November 18, 1929 in Besigheim, Swabia. After graduating from high school and studying machine design, he started at Porsche in 1956, working on engine development. The first of a long series of racing engines designed by him was the 1.5 liter eight cylinder engine used in the Porsche 804 Formula 1 racing car, in which Dan Gurney won the French Grand Prix in 1962. Over the next decade, Hans Mezger’s work ranged from the design of the legendary six cylinder boxer engine for the Porsche 911 to the development of the legendary Porsche turbo engines used in both production and racing cars. One particular highpoint was the air-cooled twelve cylinder engine for the Porsche 917, which produced up to 1,200 horsepower in the 1973 CanAm version.
After developing so many successful racing cars, such as the Porsche 935, 936 and 956/962 models, Hans Mezger dedicated himself in the early 1980s to one particular customer commission: he designed the “TAG-Turbo made by Porsche” for the British racing team McLaren – a Formula 1 engine that produced up to 1,000 horsepower from a capacity of just 1.5 liters. From 1984 to 1986, the engine produced at the Porsche development center in Weissach dominated the elite class of motorsport and consequently landed three Formula 1 world championship titles.
After more than 40 years at Porsche, Hans Mezger retired in 1994. However, he retained close links with the Porsche brand. He still owns a Porsche 911 Carrera and is always a very welcome guest at the new Porsche Museum. When Hans Mezger visits the racing cars and engines he designed which are exhibited there, history comes alive once more.