He has a .2 its newer therefore he MUST have the better car.

 

Isn't the problem with 3.8 the HPFP?¨
3.8 has been on the market for quite some time now, I am surprised that there is so little development for it. I would assume, given the prices the Porsche tuners charge (especially in Europe), that they would be working 24/7 to develop more advanced tuning stages for 997.2TT but it does not seem to happen. Maybe noone needs more than ~600hp on a 997.2TT?

 

Bob - I wasn't aware of that. I guess 1100 crank HP is the limit then.

 

I didn't find the article I read, but here's another:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept

As for the classic point, I really don't believe either of the 997TTs will be a classic. It'd be a classic to us owners/drivers, but not to the collectors. In terms of "collectibility" (which again I don't believe the 997TT is a collector car), production numbers will have to be low. I think the GT2 RS has 500, I'm not sure about the 997.1TT and the 997.2TT, but one thing for sure, is that because of PDK and the Turbo S, 997.2TT manuals will definitely be less in production numbers than the 997.1TT. As for the engine, it really will depend on the development of the DFI engine and whether Porsche will stick with it for a while.

Personally, I really love both and we've touched on the good points of both. I bought the 997.2TT, so I wanted to play devil's advocate and comment on my train of thought to come to the conclusion of buying the .2. Like someone commented, .2 people will say .2 is better, yet there are more .1 people, so I gotta help represent the .2.

 

Some of you have said that the 997.2TT has a better suspension. Can someone explain what was changed? I have not driven the 997.2TT so I cant compare it to the 997.1TT

Thanks

 

I have to agree with Peskarik here. We are discussing mainly for fun now, but as far as being a "classic," the 997.1 Turbo will surely be one because it is the last Turbo with the Mezger engine. The engine, as many have pointed out here, with the pedigree, legendary designer, history, and an incredible record to back it up. Porsche *celebrates* Mezger's birthday, doesn't that give a hint? http://porschebahn.wordpress.com/200...tone-birthday/

I am not one who advocates what I own (watch how much critical I am of many things in 997.1 Turbo), but on this one point, as many have pointed out here, with respect to the engine, and engine alone, 997.2 Turbo engine will **NEVER** be considered in the same class like 997.1's for Porsche connoisseurs. It doesn't even have a real dry sump.

997.2 is a great car, don't get me wrong, but here is its (minor) "problem" as far as long term value:
1. 997.1 has the Mezger
2. 991 has the better chassis (more mid engine, and glowing reviews so far)
3. 997.2 has neither the Mezger or the better chassis
10 years from now, if I were to pick a car, it would be either 1 or 2, and not 3. In addition I would stay away from any old Porsche with PDK until the record and cost of repair off warranty becomes clearer.

 

I've spoke with several people and tuners about the 997.1 limits on a stock motor. Champion and Protomotive both feel that the safe limits are around 700whp. Switzer says that you can run 900whp on stock motor. I had a chance to talk with the previous sledgehammer owner and he said he never had any problems but mainly ran the car on 93 octane, which kept him around 700-750whp. Even at 700whp, that's almost 900 crank pretty crazy #'s for a stock motor, especially when every tuner calls that "safe power".

Dave did push his alpha 30 kit to the limit with the 983whp, but did run into problems like Bob said. There were also some others that had similar problems when they went to the 900whp range on a stock set up. I'm not a tuner, but from what I hear it's a matter of when, not if your motor will go at that level. I'm still learning though, which is def going to help when the time comes for me to decide on a direction to go with my turbo.

 

To be fair, I should point out that IMHO 997.2's has one historical achievement, the PDK (too bad d*** GT-R beats us (Porsche) to the market eh Scott? ). Problem is that from a long term perspective, the PDK is not like the Mezger engine that's refined to its absolute greatest in 997.1 Turbo, but is in fact first generation PDK that will be improved upon and already is obsolete. The next PDK in 991 surely will have revisions and improvements.

Second, a number of Porsche fanatics *still* think manual is better, thereby PDK becomes a ho-hum advancement. And then there is the issue of long term reliability and cost of fixing. I would NOT want to be the first group to own PDK past warranty.

Strictly as a car that is NOT to be modded, 997.2 Turbo is greatest and fastest Turbo ever at this point, but its fate from long term perspective is sealed merely from the fact that it's a mid-life revision, preceded by the Michael Jordan of Porsche Turbo and followed by the next big thing, the 991 Turbo. It never did, and I think never will, generate the incredible excitement that was the birth of the last Mezger Turbo in 2007. Anyone here looking for a used Turbo, if you see a 2009 997.1 Turbo with low mileage, especially one with PCCB, my advice is to jump on it, IMMEDIATELY!

 

BTW I have this old picture that I did a while ago, before this discussion ever exists:

 

+1, Can thanks for the clean summary. First time I've heard the MJ reference for the 997.1, and have to agree. As stated in earlier posts/threads, the 997.1's negative points are easily addressed through non-evasive after market improvements, leaving the owner with a car that has very little (read: no) flaws.

If making a purchase decision between .1 and .2, think of why you're getting the car, what aspects of the driving experience really resonate with you, what you'll do with the car post-purchase, and make you're informed decision. Regardless of the decision, you're going to have fun!

 

900 crank to 750whp...
Why one assumes such big losses?
Look at the power measurements by Rototest, for 2007 997T Cab:

http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=785

There is almost no loss of power at the wheels (no loss of torque).

Here is 996TT:

http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=670

 

The average Turbo owner's age in US is 53 year old, I've read somewhere. Moreover, Porsche themselves aim this car at people above 45. Most of these guys do not want to have the hassle of the stick. Which is corroborated by the sales of 997.2T, most of which, and I believe it is 95%+ range, come with PDK.

These days most people just want to be "the best and the fastest", and could not care less that it is a computer doing it for them so no honour in that, but for them achieving something on their own is not important.

Tip or PDK plus a million HPs and "look, I am the fastest in the world". To me this is childish, all these drag races, where you let the computer pull you forward in a straight line as fast as possible, while you cling to the steering wheel like a brainless piece of meat.

On the other hand, I must admit, driving through the Alps this summer I did think about PDK many a time, in mountainous terrain the uninterrupted power-delivery of PDK would let one concentrate on the corners so much more, also given the loooong stock Turbo clutch. Also, even though I have the factory shortshifter, I wish the stick shifts were even shorter.

 

This is a very beautiful photo, I use it for my desktop background, though I wish it were 1920x1080.
Do you have more photos, from other angles? (I have two monitors :-) ).

 

I'm pretty sure that most would agree that a awd car loses between 15-18% to the wheels from crank power. Just from what I've seen from dyno #'s and what I've been told.

 

I did read somewhere that all Mezger engines are tested at a engine dyno to meet at least 105% of rated power, so if you have 460whp on a 997.1TT and started with 505bhp there is losses (of course) but why so many ppl think losses always are a fixed % suprises me...losses are probably both a fixed loss and a %.

It is much easier to stick to whp imo and never try to guess crank hp, because even if it is used for marketing it is still just a guess.