advantage in a 997.2TT over a 997.1TT? (facts please)
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advantage in a 997.2TT over a 997.1TT? (facts please)
Preface: So I've dreamt of owning a 911 Turbo since ~1997. I haven't had amazing luck finding the perfect 997.1TT in the past year and am in no rush. My P-fund was recently repurposed and I'm starting over. I'm by no means rich and a brand new Turbo simply isn't an option for me at this point. I'm comfortable in the $80k-$90k range. I plan on it being a DD for the most part (hanging on to my A4 for terrible weather) and tracking it at Summit Point on occasion. I'm not going to go crazy with mods either; at most minor upgrades such as ECU and exhaust.
I've trolled forums a fair bit and have seen a lot of preferences stated but not a lot of hard facts with metrics. Sure theres an extra 20hp in the .2 but to be honest so far my only selling point is the PCM.
My question is this: Given that I'm not going to go nuts with mods and a manual transmission is an absolute requirement are there any advantages in a 997.2 vice a 997.1? If there are compelling reasons I'm fine with waiting until the 991 is out as I'm sure I'll be able to find a low milage .2 in the local area, otherwise I'm going to jump on the first 07-08 that is spec'd out appropriately.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your input!
I've trolled forums a fair bit and have seen a lot of preferences stated but not a lot of hard facts with metrics. Sure theres an extra 20hp in the .2 but to be honest so far my only selling point is the PCM.
My question is this: Given that I'm not going to go nuts with mods and a manual transmission is an absolute requirement are there any advantages in a 997.2 vice a 997.1? If there are compelling reasons I'm fine with waiting until the 991 is out as I'm sure I'll be able to find a low milage .2 in the local area, otherwise I'm going to jump on the first 07-08 that is spec'd out appropriately.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your input!
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My very biased vote is for 997.1 CPO 
Mine is for sale. in case you are interested.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ilver-cpo.html
Mine is for sale. in case you are interested.https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ilver-cpo.html
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IMO...the good news is you'll love either version you choose as both are awesome vehicles.
In that price range I think you'll find an excellent low mileage .1 sample with the options you're looking for. I haven't seen .2 for sale in that range.
.1 advantages = better price point for nearly identical performance and style - rock solid/proven engine - adapts well to performance upgrades
.2 advantages = likely has longer/current warranty - cosmetic updates, e.g. wheels, rear LEDs (still look better even though there are .1 options), engine mounts, suspension updates, 20 hp bump, latest electronics
I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a great .1 sample and make it your own.
In that price range I think you'll find an excellent low mileage .1 sample with the options you're looking for. I haven't seen .2 for sale in that range.
.1 advantages = better price point for nearly identical performance and style - rock solid/proven engine - adapts well to performance upgrades
.2 advantages = likely has longer/current warranty - cosmetic updates, e.g. wheels, rear LEDs (still look better even though there are .1 options), engine mounts, suspension updates, 20 hp bump, latest electronics
I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a great .1 sample and make it your own.
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IMO...the good news is you'll love either version you choose as both are awesome vehicles.
In that price range I think you'll find an excellent low mileage .1 sample with the options you're looking for. I haven't seen .2 for sale in that range.
.1 advantages = better price point for nearly identical performance and style - rock solid/proven engine - adapts well to performance upgrades
.2 advantages = likely has longer/current warranty - cosmetic updates, e.g. wheels, rear LEDs (still look better even though there are .1 options), engine mounts, suspension updates, 20 hp bump, latest electronics
I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a great .1 sample and make it your own.
In that price range I think you'll find an excellent low mileage .1 sample with the options you're looking for. I haven't seen .2 for sale in that range.
.1 advantages = better price point for nearly identical performance and style - rock solid/proven engine - adapts well to performance upgrades
.2 advantages = likely has longer/current warranty - cosmetic updates, e.g. wheels, rear LEDs (still look better even though there are .1 options), engine mounts, suspension updates, 20 hp bump, latest electronics
I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a great .1 sample and make it your own.
^ This ^
Well said!
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Love my 997.2TT with manual transmission. All the little updates make a big difference to me like the full LED tailights and the bigger exhaust tips.
I don't want to talk about the 997.2TT motor as I will get alot of naysayers knocking on it. But there has been no documented proof that the motor is not as strong as the 997.1TT
I don't want to talk about the 997.2TT motor as I will get alot of naysayers knocking on it. But there has been no documented proof that the motor is not as strong as the 997.1TT
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At least one key component of 997.2 engine, the rod, has been tested to be weaker than 997.1. True, only one part, but then we have to ask what else is compromised. Another example is the restrictive fuel system of 997.2. Tom of Champion mentioned this here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ed-manual.html
Anyone please corrects me if I am wrong, but I vaguely recall the GT1 engine in 997.1 Turbo costs about 30k more to make than 997.2 (???). Perhaps because it's old technology, perhaps because it is more sturdy - this part I don't know. What is certain is 997.1 Turbo engine is a gem: race proven and a huge racing pedigree, built like a tank, mod proven (if done correctly!), destined to be a legend (doesn't mean much, outside of "pride of ownership" LOL). Note that it is discontinued because of cost factor, not because it is out-performed.
Outside of the engine, 997.2 is better in every way: newer obviously, slightly better suspension (but still needs to be modded), slightly better exhaust note (but still needs to be modded). Because the parts that make 997.2 better are not that much better and still need to be modded, the race proven engine of 997.1 Turbo becomes the deciding factor. IMHO the best used Porsche is a 2009 997.1 Turbo. I discussed things you might want to consider in buying a used Turbo here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...urbo-ever.html
Anyone please corrects me if I am wrong, but I vaguely recall the GT1 engine in 997.1 Turbo costs about 30k more to make than 997.2 (???). Perhaps because it's old technology, perhaps because it is more sturdy - this part I don't know. What is certain is 997.1 Turbo engine is a gem: race proven and a huge racing pedigree, built like a tank, mod proven (if done correctly!), destined to be a legend (doesn't mean much, outside of "pride of ownership" LOL). Note that it is discontinued because of cost factor, not because it is out-performed.
Outside of the engine, 997.2 is better in every way: newer obviously, slightly better suspension (but still needs to be modded), slightly better exhaust note (but still needs to be modded). Because the parts that make 997.2 better are not that much better and still need to be modded, the race proven engine of 997.1 Turbo becomes the deciding factor. IMHO the best used Porsche is a 2009 997.1 Turbo. I discussed things you might want to consider in buying a used Turbo here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...urbo-ever.html
Last edited by cannga; Oct 16, 2012 at 09:52 PM.
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Cannga,
I'm glad you posted. Again, there is no documented proof showing the rods are acutally weaker. Not to discredit Champion but just because someone says something doesn't make it true. If I said I ran a 9.9 second quarter mile on stock turbos everyone would be asking me to show proof with a time slip or some kind of verifiable documentation. Maybe the rods are weaker, maybe not. Show me proof before making statements without actual evidence is all I ask. I really want to find out for my own benfit as I plan on upgrading as well.
I'm glad you posted. Again, there is no documented proof showing the rods are acutally weaker. Not to discredit Champion but just because someone says something doesn't make it true. If I said I ran a 9.9 second quarter mile on stock turbos everyone would be asking me to show proof with a time slip or some kind of verifiable documentation. Maybe the rods are weaker, maybe not. Show me proof before making statements without actual evidence is all I ask. I really want to find out for my own benfit as I plan on upgrading as well.
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I have the same opinion as cannga.
Champion has taken apart the engines and has tested them to the limits. They are the new RUF IMO. Their opinion is highly respected here.
I have read all the same facts and opinions and agree that the GT1 engine will retain value among purists as it is the stoutest version (physically, ECU, Fuel delivery system, air metering, transmission, cooling, etc...) of a legendary race proven engine of epic proportions. This engine is the one for people looking to mod the car heavily or just buy an engine they know will last a lifetime.
The only reason I'd buy a 2010+ 997T is for the PDK. This setup (997.2 PDK) will likely win most stoplight races as it's very quick. But a modded GT1 motor will give you incomparable POWER and PULL from a HQ and TQ perspective. Not really any options out there other than the Nissan GTR or heavily modded lambo/R8s either.
I think this one comes down to opinion and what you want out of your dream car.
Champion has taken apart the engines and has tested them to the limits. They are the new RUF IMO. Their opinion is highly respected here.
I have read all the same facts and opinions and agree that the GT1 engine will retain value among purists as it is the stoutest version (physically, ECU, Fuel delivery system, air metering, transmission, cooling, etc...) of a legendary race proven engine of epic proportions. This engine is the one for people looking to mod the car heavily or just buy an engine they know will last a lifetime.
The only reason I'd buy a 2010+ 997T is for the PDK. This setup (997.2 PDK) will likely win most stoplight races as it's very quick. But a modded GT1 motor will give you incomparable POWER and PULL from a HQ and TQ perspective. Not really any options out there other than the Nissan GTR or heavily modded lambo/R8s either.
I think this one comes down to opinion and what you want out of your dream car.
At least one key component of 997.2 engine, the rod, has been tested to be weaker than 997.1. True, only one part, but then we have to ask what else is compromised. Another example is the restrictive fuel system of 997.2. Tom of Champion mentioned this here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ed-manual.html
Anyone please corrects me if I am wrong, but I vaguely recall the GT1 engine in 997.1 Turbo costs about 30k more to make than 997.2 (???). Perhaps because it's old technology, perhaps because it is more sturdy - this part I don't know. What is certain is 997.1 Turbo engine is a gem: race proven and a huge racing pedigree, built like a tank, mod proven (if done correctly!), destined to be a legend (doesn't mean much, outside of "pride of ownership" LOL). Note that it is discontinued because of cost factor, not because it is out-performed.
Outside of the engine, 997.2 is better in every way: newer obviously, slightly better suspension (but still needs to be modded), slightly better exhaust note (but still needs to be modded). Because the parts that make 997.2 better are not that much better and still need to be modded, the race proven engine of 997.1 Turbo becomes the deciding factor. IMHO the best used Porsche is a 2009 997.1 Turbo. I discussed things you might want to consider in buying a used Turbo here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...urbo-ever.html
Anyone please corrects me if I am wrong, but I vaguely recall the GT1 engine in 997.1 Turbo costs about 30k more to make than 997.2 (???). Perhaps because it's old technology, perhaps because it is more sturdy - this part I don't know. What is certain is 997.1 Turbo engine is a gem: race proven and a huge racing pedigree, built like a tank, mod proven (if done correctly!), destined to be a legend (doesn't mean much, outside of "pride of ownership" LOL). Note that it is discontinued because of cost factor, not because it is out-performed.
Outside of the engine, 997.2 is better in every way: newer obviously, slightly better suspension (but still needs to be modded), slightly better exhaust note (but still needs to be modded). Because the parts that make 997.2 better are not that much better and still need to be modded, the race proven engine of 997.1 Turbo becomes the deciding factor. IMHO the best used Porsche is a 2009 997.1 Turbo. I discussed things you might want to consider in buying a used Turbo here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...urbo-ever.html
Last edited by Turbo Fanatic; Oct 17, 2012 at 12:46 AM.
This car is perfect in my opinion - 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo for Sale in Newton Square, PA 19073
Here is an Arctic Silver one that you may also want to check out - 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo for Sale in Colorado Springs, CO 80906
Here is an Arctic Silver one that you may also want to check out - 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo for Sale in Colorado Springs, CO 80906
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997.2 advantages (I've also owned 997.1):
- Much better suspension (if you're not going to mod then this is significant)
- PTV (compared to lsd only)
- RS Spyder wheels
- Led lights
- A bit more space in the frunk
- The DFI is a much more resopnsive engine 'around town' (I don't do too many 60-100 pulls on the way to work). Feels quicker/smoother in daily driving (again, comparing stock/stock). I'm surprised more people don't talk about this.
- PCM 3 is HUGE improvement (realize you can get this in 2009 997.1)
- Bluetooth/ipod integration
- Dynamic cornering lights (excellent if you drive a lot of dark back roads)
In my opinion (sorry, can't help it), the 997.2 makes a much better daily driver, especially due to the last 4 points and assuming the car has the available options. If you're willing to mod, I'm sure you can close the gap.
[Edit: I just noticed that I need to update my Avatar!]
- Much better suspension (if you're not going to mod then this is significant)
- PTV (compared to lsd only)
- RS Spyder wheels
- Led lights
- A bit more space in the frunk
- The DFI is a much more resopnsive engine 'around town' (I don't do too many 60-100 pulls on the way to work). Feels quicker/smoother in daily driving (again, comparing stock/stock). I'm surprised more people don't talk about this.
- PCM 3 is HUGE improvement (realize you can get this in 2009 997.1)
- Bluetooth/ipod integration
- Dynamic cornering lights (excellent if you drive a lot of dark back roads)
In my opinion (sorry, can't help it), the 997.2 makes a much better daily driver, especially due to the last 4 points and assuming the car has the available options. If you're willing to mod, I'm sure you can close the gap.
[Edit: I just noticed that I need to update my Avatar!]
Last edited by twnj; Oct 17, 2012 at 07:08 AM.
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My reasons for taking a 997.2TT manual over a 997.1 are:
(1) I can order a brand new custom spec 997.2TT.
(2) PTV
(3) Dynamic Engine Mounts
To me, what the 997.2TT offered me was a brand new car with more technology to improve handling which I wanted, while my tradeoff was potential to get more power out of the GT1 engine through modding which I didn't need.
(1) I can order a brand new custom spec 997.2TT.
(2) PTV
(3) Dynamic Engine Mounts
To me, what the 997.2TT offered me was a brand new car with more technology to improve handling which I wanted, while my tradeoff was potential to get more power out of the GT1 engine through modding which I didn't need.
Last edited by DaBrat; Oct 17, 2012 at 07:50 AM.
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997,2 is for sure a better car than 997,1...for 99% of buyers...If someone is on the other side and wants to (hard) mod the car...then 997,1 is the way to go...in almost every other occasion its just a better,newer version...