I'm about to upgrade my 997.1TT Cabrio intercoolers and I narrowed it down to 2 brands; EVOMS clubsport or Fabspeed clubsport. Suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks in advance, Roberto J. Garrote

 

Champion.

 

Look at Protomotive too.

 

Take a look at this thread:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...r-test-10.html

Post #148 and your questions are answered. Just facts, no BS there.

 

Just like Pete said. No BS Written there just hardcore facts/data.

The test shows bang for buck the gt2rs coolers are a good substitute but If you want ultimate cooling all the way to 200mph no IAT concerns what so ever you need a set of aerospace in your life!

 

This link and video should help.

http://www.championmotorsport.com/pr...s-997t-int.htm

 

No offence Tom you are very nice guy and you are always helpful!

But there is something fishy about the vid Tom!

Louis compared 4 coolers on the flow bench but In actual testing he missed probably the most important core to use as reference and only comments on 3 coolers?

Why is that?

Was the 997.2 core just as good?

or

Was it so close in the test that it was not worth spending the extra money on the champions?

Also the other thing is Louis is saying verbally the champion product is astounding and better but where is the data we need to see as consumers?

Another point is that these cars are made to hits speeds of close to 200mph which needs 6th gear so why would Louis not test them all the way?

Are we meant to take it as gospel?

 

No offense, but aren't you trying to push the product that you sell that won your 'impartial' test, while also not having tested the other cores that are actually worth a damn (TPC/Proto, Champion), and also without having done testing up to anywhere beyond 20mph speeds?

I know you paid for the test yourself so some of it just wasnt possible, and that the testing facility couldnt support higher speeds. But still, you're calling Tom out for not doing the exact same things you didn't do....

 

Take it easy dude.

How or where am I selling a product?

I'm just asking questions that anyone would ask with half a brain?

Yes I did a test that I paid for but it was done independently and in no way shape or form was it fixed as the AKG coolers that FVD sent me came out at the bottom. In fact the very same intercoolers after me doing a bit of research are the ones that Techart sell with their turbo kit which is why their badge is shaved off before AKG sell them by the looks of it, would you like a pic?

It would be nice to actually keep this guys thread on topic and not actually go down the route of what you are trying to imply!

Another thing is yes I haven't tested the other cores you have mentioned but I don't mind reorganising the same test for you to test them all if you like?

Plus I have done real world testing up to 190mph and will do the magic 200mph.

There is real data on my thread to show you at similar ambient temps the aeros were better than the gt2rs by 10*c at 240kph!

 

He didn't spend too much time talking about the 997.2 coolers, because as you can see in the results of the flow test that was performed at an independent third party testing facility, the 997.2 cooler was the WORST flowing of all of them. Since it doesn't flow well, it's usability for any application using a modified or upgraded turbo becomes very limited. I think this has been proven by the fact that so many 996TT owners are blowing the end tanks right off of them with minor turbo upgrades. Our, current version of our cores was included in the test.

To answer your second question, we didn't test them to 200mph in 6th gear because honestly...we're not able to do that on our roads here in Florida. So we test them on our dyno in as many configurations as we can (stock turbos, ugpraded VTG's, and others), and using the technology that's available to us through our partners (flow and efficiency testing). We also make heavy use of the technology that we have acquired, learned, and mastered from over 20 years of RACING turbocharged cars in some of the world's most competitive and prestigious arenas. The Porsche GT1, our World Challenge RS4's and RS6's, the Audi R8 and R10....all the basis for a lot of the technology that we use on our street car packages. Believe me, anyone who knows us or has visited our facility knows that when we make or design a part, we make it to be the best...period.

You don't have to believe it and you don't have to take it as gospel. That is the beauty of the open market, you have choices. To date, we have sold 165 sets of our newest generation of intercoolers and never heard one person complain that they're not able to do their job. Heck, I've probably sold a dozen sets of coolers to Emre at ESMotor...who builds the fastest Porsches in the world. As for data, on MANY occasions I've provided data logs on the forums showing some REALLY impressive IAT's, given the conditions that we test in here in Florida...i.e. HOT all the time lol.

Over the past couple years, I've provided every bit of data that I could and was willing to share. But I'll only go so far. One of the very first lessons I learned on this forum (and others) is that the Porsche aftermarket is very set in it's way. There are those who will never be willing to believe anything I say...and there's just no way to change their opinions no matter how much proof or data I provide. Changes people's opinions on our coolers has never been easy...but to be honest, I'm not desperate to sell them. They are already selling faster then Louis can make them.

 

Hey Tom I do respect champion probably more so than a lot of the other AM tuners out their as you guys do put a lot of effort into R&D.

But what can I say I'm an intercooler addict and know how important it is for the turbo cars we drive which I guess is my reason why I question different types of coolers.

Tom not a dig at you I know you just sell stuff and rely on the data provided to you.

Ok so the end tanks blow off but can be clamped down?

Also you could have tested them at stock boost if Louis knew their was an issue with the end tanks popping?

Another point is they are the worst flowing from your bench test but we know this does not mean a thing as they have been proven to be a lot better than the OEM 997.1 IC's and some AM coolers which people have not disclosed.

Lastly I don't know about some people but in my life I have followed other companies marketing hype and been screwed over in the process and due to this fact I do now question everybody's products before I spend my hard earned especially when it comes down to AM tuners!

 

Thanks. Honestly I think we're one of the very few left that actually do.

Don't worry, I'll still sleep at night. I don't take it personally. But for the record, I don't just sell the stuff....I spend A LOT of time educating myself on every part we sell, the engineering and theory behind it, and how it functions in the car. I've acquired quite a bit of knowledge over the past 20 years of tinkering with cars.

Of course, you could clamp the end tanks down and that might stop them from popping off...but have you really solved your flow issue at that point? You still don't have any more flow in the core so you're still fighting a bottleneck.

Once the testing facility (Wilson Manifolds) determined that the .2 core didn't flow as well as even the .1, we saw no need to test it any more. For our purposes, that was all the information we needed.

Keep in mind...intercoolers have two jobs to accomplish; cool the intake air, and flow as freely as possible. Just because the .2 coolers don't flow air well, does not necessarily mean they are inefficient at cooling. In fact, I've always said that they are actually quite efficient at cooling. Their downfall is their lack of flow. That is why they are so popular among Turbo owners with light mods....they cool very very well, up to the point that you start trying to push too much air through them.

By the way...we're playing with our new 991 Turbo S...stay tuned for some info on those coolers.

 

What I love about you Tom is you come with some good answers and still smile while doing so.

So to the man that started the thread if it were a choice between Evoms or champion it would be champion all the way.

I cant wait to see what you can do with the 991 Turbo.

 

I'm not here to make enemies lol. Besides you know I love my friends across the pond.

The first stop with the Turbo S is going to be the track for some 1/4 miles times (probably in a week or so)...as soon as we're done doing some ECU readouts and things like that.

 

Look forward too seeing the development bro!