First off while I am new to 6SOL (is that an acronym here? ha), I'm not new to forums. I've been on many in my time - Most commonly (lately) is Corvette forum as I'm now on my 4th Corvette (3 C5s, 1 C6 Grand Sport).

So before you yell at the new guy for not searching... I did do some (re)searching here and on rennlist (and Corvette forum for the related items) so I know 'just enough to be dangerous' about 997s - Please correct me if need be or bear with my new-to-porsche info...

The current situation...
I'm putting my 2012 C6 Grand Sport up for sale in 2-3 weeks here (after some fresh brake pads and tires and a detail) and I will be then looking for an upgrade of sorts. The budget is ideally $75-85k but could be stretched to as much as $95k (but that is the max) for the right car.

I want something I *could* drive every day, and use as an only car if need be. I carpool with a friend to work most days so I don't *need* a daily driver necessarily but I would like the ability to drive it back and forth to work in the annoyingly bad Seattle traffic, if the weather is nice. I also plan on tracking the car 4-6 weekends a year (HPDE), I might see the 1/4 mile for fun with friends 1-2 times a year, will probably also do 2-4 highway/roll race events (airstrip attack type stuff) per year. I don't plan on making HUGE power, I'd be happy with something in the 650-700whp range (isn't it crazy that 700whp isn't HUGE these days? nutty), I'm not trying to WIN airstrip events, just looking for fun at them. Also, please note that I do have E85 at my disposal.

With that in mind, I'm considering a few cars...
-997.2 911 turbo with PDK
-C7 Z06
-M4 DCT
-991 GTS PDK (used)

The M4 has safely established it can make 500+ with basically E85 and a tune and not much else - However the additional 100whp is looking like either a LOT of bolt ons or a turbo swap. So I'm not really interested in it as much simply because that's a lot of cash, and the car will likely need to be bought new - which is a big bit of depreciation.

The 991 GTS is basically on the list as it'd be trackable (as it's kind of the diet GT3), and quick. But I can't afford a 991 turbo, and love the looks... I doubt I'll buy one, but I owe it to myself to drive it.

*OH, and since someone will ask - No a GTR isn't on the list. They're fat, stiff, and ugly - I'm simply not interested in them*

So the real contenders are the C7Z and the 997.2 turbo.
The obvious stuff is the new C7Z has a removable roof this year which is awesome and something the 997 doesn't offer (yes, I know I could buy a cabrio, but I won't), and it's a brand new car - so it'll have a warranty, lots of equipment and obviously take a huge depreciation hit compared to the 997, which will likely depreciate too, but not as fast or as much. It also has a wonderful 8 speed auto which basically shifts as fast as a PDK and is smooth in the city as well. The performance data recorder is something that I don't think Porsche offered in 997s, I don't think they offered the ventilated seats either. Obviously the porsche has rear seats... But let's be honest - they're pretty much unusable, and I figure with the space they occupy it brings the storage space to about the same as the C7Z's (relatively) large hatch.

The less obvious stuff is the C7Z also makes low 600s at the wheels, a small pulley, tune, blower spacers headers, and E85 will keep it cool enough to make high 600/low 700s pretty consistently. And to be fair, anything more than those mods I wouldn't be interested in doing - maybe porting the blower but definitely not swapping it or doing a cam, etc. This should cost about $3k to do, and the car won't really need any other mods besides tint (and maybe pads and fluid for HPDE days) for the first little while.

Both cars you can get CCBs on, but I likely wouldn't get either with them. So I'll just say that off the bat.

So that leaves the 997.2 turbo with some blanks I need to fill in. Given the budget it looks like since I want a PDK, I'd be looking at an 09-11 MY car. So I'm curious...
-It looks like the Sport Chrono package, Adaptive suspension, and nav are the big options I'd want. Is there other options that are desirable/recommended?
-Is the adaptive suspension worth it and is it user-controlled (couldn't find into on this - is it like magnetic ride on corvettes - switchable by a button/dial?)
-Are the PDKs in the 09-11 reliable? Are there things to watch out for?
-What needs to be done to get in the 650ish whp ballpark (with E85 and without)? Will the car be reliable at that power level? Ideally how much should it cost (in parts only - assume I can do the work myself, besides a tune obviously)


TL;DR - Read the italicized parts and answer if you can.

Thanks all!

 

To answer some of your questions regarding the 997.2

-Sport Chrono is always the minimum in my opinion. The adaptive suspension is nice, but I haven't had experience with the Gen2 suspension. I hear it's much improved over the .1, though.

-Again, not sure on this one. TPC Racing might have some input as they sell a module for the .1 that improves the suspension response.

-Yes, thus far, nobody has pushed them to the extreme like the 997.1. DFI is a huge plus, too. I haven't heard of the coolant pipe failures on the .2 and you don't have to worry about slave issues, either.

-Champion kit will get you there. They sell the 9-second package, reflash, turbos, intercoolers, etc. These cars will make 580whp with exhaust and reflash. You can squeak out some more with coolers, intake pipes, etc.

If your budget is 95k - you can get into the car. Budget some cash for mods or wait until it's right. Finding a .2 under 95k is tough, unless you find something with higher mileage.

A nicely optioned C7Z is 95k, but it's still not a Porsche. I think they are different cars entirely, they feel drastically different behind the wheel. Although the C7Z has it's strengths, it's just not for me.

Also, at the bottom end of your budget is an M4 - if you get a used one you can find them for low 70's pretty easily. Reflash and some basic bolt ons and you're at 600whp. Could be into it for 80k and have a practical car with some balance on the track.

If the PDK is optional - you may consider a .1 - find a 2009 with PCM3 if you keep it OEM.

 

Welcome! You can probably find detailed answers to most of your questions in this section of the forum as well.

I'll attempt to answer some of your questions, because I was in a similar situation. I've only had my car for about 2 months, so there are so many more qualified people on this forum to discuss your questions.

My budget was about $100K and I was either going to wait for the C7Z06 or get a 997.2 TT Cab. The most important thing that you should do is to drive both and then decide. Plain and simple. That is the only way to decided which one to get. Everything else I'm telling you is just blah..blah...

I decided I couldn't wait and ultimately thought the Corvette would attract more attention than I wanted, so I picked up a 2011 997.2 TTS Cab and have no regrets.

PCCB-WAyyy more expensive to replace in the 911 than Corvette ($14k just in parts)-It comes standard on the TurboS so I have it. If you plan to track your car with PCCB, definitely use the search function to learn more.

I believe the PASM (adaptive suspension) comes with the Sport Chrono Package. I have upgraded to the TPC DSC (computer that controls the suspension) and have been happy. Search to find more. It adjusts the overall stiffness/travel and is a button with two settings. The TPC gives you 3 settings and is more compliant over bumps but provides improves the suspension by adjusting specific shocks under G forces, braking, cornering, and accelerating.

PDK is very reliable but there are issues as to how much HP you can push (700hp IIRC). You can search and find this too.

I replaced OEM exhaust with a Europipe exhaust and used a Cobb Accessport with a PTF tune to get about 630hp (although I have not confirmed this on a dyno). I did this for about $6k. There are plenty of exhaust options and tuners available to help you with you needs, budget, and goals. Many excellent vendors here on 6speed with E85 abilities.

The performance data recorder on the new Z looks awesome (includes a hidden HD camera). It provides data video overlay on the recording as well. I so wish that Porsche would include something like this as an option. Look at VBOX (aftermarket) for this if you pick up a 911.

Enjoy your search! My one comment would be that if you plan to drive or track your car in the rain, I think you would enjoy that experience much more in the 997 TT than in the C7Z06.

 

997.2 TT > C7 >>>>>>> M4 >>>>>>>>> 991 GTS for performance and cost per mods and cost per performance

all good cars.. the GTS is a bit girly

 

My 997.2 usage is like yours. 4-5 track days...5-6 airstrip events and a couple quarter mile events per year. I sometimes drive it to work but not usually.

I have the GIAC/Champion 9-second package. Although it looks like I will also need drag radials to get into the 9's. Tried this weekend with street tires and spun the launch and ended up with a best 10.28 @ 135.6

Engine mods are tune, intercoolers, plenum+Y pipe, and exhaust. I also hit the car's fueling limit at 27psi on race tune so I recently added a meth injection system to supply more fuel. In this trim I should hit 170 in the half mile. You cannot run e85 on the 997.2 direct injection platform. You will run out of fuel with probably just a tune since it takes 1.3x the amount of fuel with e85 vs non-ethanol gasoline.

I track my car as well and made some minor upgrades which made a dramatic improvement - Ohlins R&T coils, dog bones+end links, corner balance alignment and Toyo R888 tires (great because they work for all events).

It's a fairly heavy car compared to the vette and the driving dynamics are very different. It is also a more expensive car to mod. In the end it may not be much faster than the modded vette at the track or from a roll. But from a dig, no way can the vette stay anywhere near without slicks. Even at the airstrip events we are now usually going from a dig to try and get the best trap speed. Nothing RWD with under 1,000 HP can beat me to the end of the half mile. Launching a RWD with a lot of power is tricky...just try it on a dusty airstrip.

I know a lot about the M3 as well but that's not even in the same league. I smashed the only turbo upgrade one running right now (BMS/PURE development) and it's already causing DCT problems).

I've also raced hundreds and hundreds of times at airstrip events all vid'ed. Take a look at my You Tube page to get an idea of the capabilities of this car against others same day/same conditions.

Cheers.

 

I will try and answer some....

Sport chrono is arguable the one must have and includes adjustable suspension, not as diverse as vette. Ive only seen a handful of turbos without it so most have it. (If it has the stopwatch (wart) on top the dash it has it).

PDK on turbos was 2010+. Non-turbos 09 had pdk. These are considered 997.2
2010+ turbo was a different engine, 3.8L direct injection.
2009- was the old "mezger" which was a 3.6L racing engine but VERY strong. So 07-09tt is considered 997.1

That is why you hear 2 different routes...

You can get 07-09 (6mt or tiptronic auto) and it is easily modable including e85

Or you can get 2010+ with PDK which is incredibly fast but considered not as strong a platform or as modable.

2009 is considered a great year it had the old race engine but the updated touchscreen nav unit. BUT in the turbo it still didnt have PDK.

PDK seems to be reliable enough to about 600-650whp.

With basic bolt ons on a 2010-12 turbo you will be close to 600whp which is plenty on the turbos. Because of the PDK and awd traction you will be faster than many a 600-800hp rwd cars.
You cannot run e85 on the 2010+ because of direct injection only 07-09 (no pdk).

As far as the vette vs 911. Im a vette guy (have had 3). The 911 is nicer (havent been in c7 yet), smaller, easier to drive/see out of and has backseats and awd. The vette has more useable storage, gets better gas milage and is cheaper to maintain and mod. I would say the 911 is 1.5-2x more expensive to mod and maintain. I dont think your 95k budget will pay for a 2010+ and mods right now but i say buy car and mod throughout the first 2 years.

There were ventilated seats offered in 2010+ 997s. Most consider the "adaptive sport seats" a desirable option.

Hope all that helps. Given what you are looking for i would buy a...
2010-11 with certified warranty then mod in this order....tune, exhaust, intercoolers then see where you wanna go from there.

 

The z07 is a very good looking car and an amazing deal but it has some problems . You should have read them on corvette forum . Also there is no way that the A8 of the corvette comes near the shifting speed of the pdk . Its just as fast like tcu tuned tiptronic 997 or aventador transmission ,a f... maxed out single clutch who brakes your spine everytime it shifts. There is a nice pristine 997.2 turbo pdk for sale here at 6speedonline for sale section . It has everything possible bucket seats (10k option -60lbs ) ,pccb (15k option -20lbs) and aerokit.
About the tuning : 1. with coob , upgrated vtg68 or gt30 , intercoolers , exhaust & methanol you can archive 680 whp and around 5.5-5.8s 60-130 mph.
2.simple with giac 9second file ,intercooler and exhaust with around 600-630whp on racegas.
3. Prety much the first option but with bbi 4.0 stroker , extrafuel rail and upgrated pdk ,you can go as much as you want.

In the end if you can find a good 78-85k z07 & taking in consideration you are a corvette guy , go for it ! But really for 100k they are demanding now , get the porsche with low miles

 

The only 997.2 with vtg68's that I have seen performance data on is Efi's. Which was done by Champion/GIAC. He ripped off something like 10 consecutive 9-sec passes one day trapping 137-138 each time. He sent Tom@Champion some 5.X sec 60-130mph vBox screen shots.

Is there another 997.2 + upgraded 68's running with 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or vBox data?

 

No this was what I was talking about .
But there are some other 997.2 with 650whp+ out there like bbi shop car, Ben gtsreet fully build also by bbi and the car that coob posted with gt30

 

I was in the same situation as you about a month ago. I heavily researched and was anticipating the Z06 but ended up not pulling the trigger on it

I used to own a E93 M3 which was a wonderful car with a great V8 engine and looked at the M4 too but realized the DCT was the weak link for any future upgrades.

I ended up buying a low mileage 997.2 Turbo S from the States and am very very happy with the purchase.

 

I believe some reports are the z06 is having issues putting the power it has down. Its achilles heel is the lack of AWD, I wouldnt look to replace the Z06 with a TT, unless you really want the TT

 

The real problem with new zo6 is that they should have used active aero. If you buy z07 aero package it increases lap times and decreases dragtimes. Also for the prices they ask now, sorry but it doesnt look like a 100k car.