@ Bogg:

I was in your position about two years ago and can relate to being a bit overwhelmed. I got great support from Emre and ToddK, also 6speed member Alex (gofast) gave me many great tips and pictures as he had converted his car a few months prior. Got the job done at home all by myself without lowering the engine.

Here is what I wish I found in one thread back then .... Feel free to correct or add anything ... All info is "to the best of my knowledge" If I leave out things its probably because I don't have firsthand experience with them.

Bare needs:
- Turbos
- intake (fenderwell/silicon pipes)
- oil lines
- Blow off/Recirculation
- Boost control/ Vacuum lines
- New tune
- support (clutch/injectors/Intercoolers)

Turbos:
-Alphas: your best bet for fitment, direct bolton to headers and exhaust. Offsets the exhaust flange about 1/2-3/4 inches backwards. Oil drip pan bolts right up with the stock bolts. Can be used with Do88 style pipes if you get the 2.25" intake. Only downside is they are made to order with a 6-8 week lead time, also they are most expensive option and comes with 1 A/R option for the bolton housing, you can order them with the tial Vband external gated housings though with A/R options, more on that later. OEM egt sensor originally bolted directly into the vtg turbine housing, some tuners will cancel them out, I did not want to lose this layer of surveillance so I had adapter bungs made at a local machine shop and welded them to the exhaust right next to the lambda sensors.

- OTS Garret/PTE/XR: more affordable than the Alpha units, more size options. 4" comp intake flanges will not work with the Do88 style intakes, your options here are fenderwells/ direct filters/ ESM 4" intake that uses a modified stock air box (best solution, only one if you have carbon shrouds, $$$). Oil drip pan needs minor modifying and new bolts to bolt on to the garretts, Xona have 2 bolt patterns, PTE needs an adapter. Tial 0.63 turbine housing clears the pan, 0.82 housing needs a spacer, if the spacer is too long the hard lines connected to the pan will need to be converted to AN braided lines. The tial Vband housing will offset the exhaust flange about 1/2" to the front, so your exhaust will need an extension. External gates and new headers or modifying the stock headers are extra expenses that makes this option more expensive overall compared to alphas. 2" comp housing outlet will work with oem size lower boost hoses, 2.5" outlets need new hoses or a chop and weld new 2" outlets.

- Oil Lines: I've seen several, Proto is the best and easiest to install by far. Retains stock hardlines for oil supply and water return, only swap coolant supply line with a braided hose. Same kit can be used with Garretts and Xonas, PTE uses different fittings and different oil reducer sizing and no water cooling.

- Blow off/Recirculation: this choice affects tune. Sizes, colors, makes, mount location ... All decisions to be made here, make sure they get a clean vacuum signal and make sure it has the proper spring rate (should be shut at idle) ... I use 1tial Q50, came with a -11 spring had to swap to a -12 ... Worth checking...

-Boost control: Best is standalone, end.
Second best I'de say is Plex's pbc, mighty good, CAN hookup/AUX sensors, and failsafes. Im keeping one on standby in case the HKS tanks.
HKS is next option its what I run, capable kit and affordable. Stepper motor, compact all in one package. KEEP THE MANUAL AND READ IT, hope that was clear .... Seriously know what the buttons do, will save you fighting with complex Japanese logic later.
Didnt like the Greddy, I'de stay away.
Needless to say actual boost control is old school pneumatic control now. Figure out what vac lines you want to use and your tap points for a pressure and a vacuum signal. I used the vacant port on the plenum for a dedicated vac signal to the BOV. Then I Tee'd into the FPR line for the HKS vac signal, this way if that pesky hose ever does come off I would lose the MAP reading on the HKS and get headsup. Also tapped the ypipe for a pure pressure signal right at the merge ( I use this signal for the HKS and External gates). Vac line lengths matter!!

-Tune: Again, standalone is king. Stock ecu tunning depends on your bov choice, vent to air needs speed-density "maffless" and retaining the MAFs needs recirculation valves. Im running speed-density for over 2 years now with zero issues.
In speed-density air mass is estimated rather than metered, manifold pressure is used in this calculation and is an estimated value by itself (997.1's have a pressure sensor in the ypipe and none in the actual manifold). The lambdas complete the loop correcting the estimations for the ecu. The pressure sensor on the ypipe will max out at 2.55Bar absolute pressure, so if you run anything more than 1.55 bar the ecu is blind to that and the final fuse left is the lambda sensor, blow those or damage them running C16 and you are flirting with an engine build. Again, a standalone is priceless here saving a stocker running big boost. For the stock setup I ran just 1 map, reserved the higher boost settings for racefuel, worked like a charm, this method will get you to your torque limits, multiple maps is an added complication you dont need. I.e when you are limited by torque to 7xx wlbs-ft, getting there with more boost or more timing does not matter much. Just dont stray too much north

- If you plan to diy the project free up a weekend and get the help of a couple good friends, download the alpha9 install by AMS to get a roadmap of what needs to be done.

Hope this helps you and others, again these are my experiences Of what worked for me.

Good luck with your project.

 

Any more info on that ESMotor intake kit? I've seen it before but don't know much about it.

 

Hey Dan,

Comes as a complete kit: stock airbox with bigger 4" holes in the back, a new coolant overflow tank, 4" ducts and the carbon piece. You will have to cut a hole just behind the intercooler shrouds to connect the carbon piece to the ducts.













Best solution out there imo, more so if you drive your car daily, keeping up with cleaning thr filters on the turbos could be a chore.

 

Rep points for TT.BRN a lot of good detail here. Thanks

 

I 2nd that!


If I do Xona's, most likely I would do pump and meth and max out my engine. Look at the times Dzenno was getting with pump and meth.
There is such a peace of mind with E85 though....

 

That does look nice, and probably flows about the same as my intake pipes do. It also gets air from the stock location which is great, what was originally intended for the car. Problem is I have a monster Titanium Y-Pipe and BOVs taking up the stock airbox location .

 

Agreed! rep points coming. And more questions.

 

thanks Sam. I'm assuming that we can adjust how the boost comes on with the HKS so that it is "gentle" on the stock rods.

 

Yeah all the tuning as a whole

 

It's amazing how so many questions come to mind about this turbo upgrade while I'm at work and have to wait to post, lol. Just little things like wondering what happens to the opening at the back of the intake plenum where the vtg brvs used to connect to? I think tt.brn was saying that he tapped that opening as a reference for vacuum?

I can see the appeal of getting a "kit" from a place like AMS for example. All of the gaskets, hoses and bits will just work together and there's no guessing involved. I already have intake pipes and I/cs so the whole kit thing didn't make any sense to me. Besides, it costs a lot more than I wanted to spend, lol.

The other extreme where everything is sourced a la carte may appeal to those that are doing their own install and have a clue about this stuff. That's not me, lol.

I'm trying to make purchases sensibly with the idea that everything will work well together. I'm pretty sure the DO88 intake pipes will line up with the Xonas and if the exhaust gets pushed out another half inch or so it should be ok. But it's these little things that can make or break the painlessness of the install and experience. And this is why I went with Sam. I'm sure there are others that play that role as well but I really like the experience of saying to Sam - "here's what I've already got, help me choose a turbo that will fit without fab work, fuss, or other issues". My goal is relatively simple - just want a broad powerband with a bit more oomph than what I had while retaining excellent driveability and engine safety. Likely my setup won't overtax the turbos, hopefully they won't get bored, lol.

 

Cheers bud. I’ve actually already spoken to several people about you as you’re going to be a very good source of advice for people looking between different set ups. You’re going to have had them all pretty much! I will definitely walk you through every step and it’s not as intimidating as it seems. We will use that port for our vacuum/boost reference. It will go to the new blow off valves instead of down to the recirculating units on the current turbo charger. We will use those lines to give manifold pressure to our wastegate actuator’s. With the new set up and brackets your turbochargers will not be moved out of place that’s why it’s really important to be careful where you get information. That was on older set ups and people using 996 configurations on a 997. It’s going to be fine trust me and I appreciate your faith we will get it and you were fully understand it which will give you more appreciation for the whole set up and enjoying your car to the max. It’s all in/out plumbing in the end and is pretty simple just intimidating. Ask away at any time that’s how you learn and that’s how the community can reference! No one person is the best at everything certainly myself. But I bring a lot of experience and past relationships/knowledge. I have an awesome team that will get us through anything that comes our way.

 

Thanks Sam, I know I'm in good hands.

I will definitely be a source of info for others. Just like with each of my turbo upgrades, I plan on full details of performance goals and actual end results. I waited and waited for someone else to give some performance details on the Champions on pumpgas and that info never came...until I bought them. No regrets, they are/were awesome. Definitely there were tradeoffs to be made, and since then I've become a bit more knowledgeable about turbos and pluses and minuses. I think the ones we have chosen for my project should be a really good compromise, meaning that it should maintain midrange performance (3500-4500rpm) comparable to the 68s while offering more power and less backpressure above 5k rpm. When I first got the Cobb protune done I was amazed that it held max boost all the way up to redline. It made me think that my previous tuner was wrong about the 68s and vtgs in general. Turns out he wasn't wrong, lol, as the dyno showed that despite holding boost all the way up there is still a drop off in power/torque. And this is why a dyno test is of value at the end of the tuning process. Or better yet, a series of dynotuning sessions. It's not cheap so it's better to get in the ballpark first before getting on the dyno imho. I didn't know about the relationship between higher boost on the vtgs and increased backpressures. But I have learned over the years.

I'll never forget when I told Todd at Proto that I was upgrading to 68s and his statement was something like, "I wish I could get you into alphas, they make vtgs look stupid", lol.

 

Yeah it’s going to be cool. In defense of the BTG times and tuning has changed a little bit. There’s no doubt about the back pressure but we’ve been able to do several cars that climb all the way to redline and don’t run out of fuel and all of those other things that was supposedly happening. Again somethings have changed and it’s all documented. However, we are dealing with some back for sure and we are dealing with efficiency so VE goes up when we put the elf is on. Since you came from a pretty large frame set up you’re not going to really feel much more lag if we do it right. That’s funny what Todd said he’s been against since the beginning. Still he put out some fast VTG’s also.

 

interested on the new power gains with xona... i want to change my 68mm champion too. will wait for the post

 

It begins! Car is in the shop getting the old turbos and intercoolers off to sell and then the magic starts.