Borla is advertising something like a 26 HP gain, at the wheels, for their headers and exhaust.
Mr. B

 

Borla's claim is in the same ball park as the real gains that have been achieved from good header / cat / muffler setups. I'd forget claims; tuners almost invariably claim more then their products deliver. Headers and mufflers on these cars will give you 8-10BHP if you're really lucky. 200-cell cats give 12-15. These figures are increases measured at the wheels. 20-25 BHP (wheels) equates to approx 24-30BHP at the flywheel.

AFAIK, nobody has had independent dyno tests done on a 997S.1 that show bigger increases than those I quoted above for an exhaust system on its own.

 

That 26hp was at the widest delta, peak hp was only up 8-10rwhp.

Dave

 

Ian agreed...at best a full exhaust system is probably worth IMHO 15-20rwhp. I felt Europipe gave correct results saying the full exhaust is 15-20rwhp.

BTW, my uncle is from Manchester, EN.

Dave

 

Ian,
We can appreciate your skepticism. Unfortunately not all aftermarket parts suppliers, tuners, or even manufacturers are straight-forward with their performance gains. It's a shame that some fly-by-night performance companies are only in it for the quick buck. However, we here at Borla have been designing & fabricating exhaust systems for over 30 years and realize the importance of maintaining an honest business model.

We know the value of repeat business and I assure you we aren't out to pull a fast one. Not only would over-inflating performance figures erode our loyal customer base, but it would go against our long-term business plan. From street applications to professional racing, it's our contention that we produce the best performance exhaust at any price point. A tremendous amount of time, planning, effort, top-quality raw materials, and labor go into the R&D and production of all our products. As a result, when we do release a new part, we’re glad to announce its success as a true performance addition to your vehicle.

We always welcome third-party confirmations of the results we achieved. For example, our Infiniti G37 coupe cat-back gains 15-18 hp & torque over the stock setup. For a slightly more similar comparison to the 997S, our Porsche Cayman cat-back raises that car’s performance about 18 hp/ 15 torque to the wheels. In keeping with those results, we measured the peak performance gains of our 997S cat-back and headers to net 26hp & 32 torque. If you'd like to look at our dyno results, they're also posted here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ders-997s.html It's good to note we increase performance while also saving weight.

We're grateful for honest feedback from fellow car enthusiasts like yourselves & I look forward to any other questions you all might have. Thanks again for your continued interest in our product!

Chris

 

Thanks for the reply. This is interesting and it's good that you stand by your claims. What I'd really like is some comment from other tuners here. If....'if'... Borla's claims are able to be substantiated, then why are they able to realise gains other tuners haven't? This goes against 'accepted' wisdom on these cars.

So....

To Borla - why do you believe your headers and mufflers are better performers then everyone else's?

To AWE / Fabspeed and others - what are your thoughts on this one? Can Borla really get 26 BHP from headers/mufflers? Why do your systems produce less?

Claims vs real-life performance - looking forward to an interesting debate....

 

I haven't had my car dyno'ed, but it feels MUCH peppier since the installation of the Borla headers and exhaust.
Mr. B

 

let me get my popcorn

 

Chris, before I start I just wanted to say I have owned many Borla products from several SVT Mustangs I have owned to a E46 M3 and I always thought Borla made a great product. That being said I disagree with your analysis of the dyno you show. Sure the hp at a certain delta is a gain of 26hp, but peak hp to me looks like it only gained 8-10rwhp which is on par with what headers and mufflers should net. To get anywhere near the 26rwhp gain cats will have to be swapped out as well to at least a 200cpi metallic cat. Unless I read the dyno wrong, (your dyno never specified what peak hp/tq was stock and with the Borla parts) it looks like to me the gain was once again only 8-10rwhp at the peak. The top of the hp dyno got caught off and you can't read what the numbers are.

Dave

 

 

Ian,
We're merely in search of the best exhaust. And we're fortunate to have a heritage of several firsts. Everything from holding several industry patents, being the pioneers of aftermarket exhausts with direct bolt-on installation with no cutting or rewelding needed, to our Million Mile Warranty for street applications. Simply put, we design our exhausts the way we think they should be made.

Imagine a cross-country car race where everyone from your city was invited. While the various competitors eventually reach the same destination, the vehicles they use, the driving tactics they employ, and even the path they travel has the potential vary greatly. Similarly, anyone can make an exhaust system. How will it sound? What materials do we use? How will it perform? What size tubing do we use? What will it look like? What kind of mufflers do we use? How can we simplify installation? Will it save weight? These are just some of the questions we ask ourselves while designing an exhaust system. And while the end result for everyone in the race may be an exhaust system, perhaps the journey Borla takes to get there is different enough & special enough to stand out amongst the crowd.

I hope that gives you an idea of how dedicated & passionate we are about our brand, our products, and our customers who choose to follow us.

Dave,
I'm not quite sure of your background with dynamometers so forgive me if this information isn't new to you; it might be for others.

What we're most interested in is the delta, not the peak. While the data is data, how you interpret it will forever be up to speculation. It's our contention the debate of peak gains point-to-point loses significance if our parts are able to get you to that higher peak faster. You'll often hear aftermarket companies such as ours looking for the "area under the curve," meaning where our parts outperform the stock setup. While peak hp on a dyno sheet is great for bragging rights, it doesn't give you a complete picture of the performance-enhancing abilities of the aftermarket part.

Maximum gains at the peak of the RPM band are imperative in places like the Bonneville Salt Flats. However, on the street or track we would certainly trade a few horses at the very top for sizable gains in the low, mid, and upper portions of the band. Also, don't forget the advantages that low-end torque provide to the equation. To get to those mid & upper portions of the RPM band, increased torque will ease your car through the grunt work more efficiently.

I've included the same dyno sheets you saw before but now with two snapshots during the run cycle and legible values at the point intercepts. As I originally posted here, our headers & cat back net up to 26hp & 32ft-lbs of torque. The blue line represents the stock run & the red line has our cat-back & headers on. Keep in mind the X-axis terms "Speed in mph" and "Engine Speed RPMx1000" are interchangeable legend titles. Thanks for all your great questions; let me know if you have any more!

Enjoy the weekend,
Chris

 

Chris I am very familair with dyno's, I just wanted to point out the dyno you posted showed the 26hp at the widest delta. It wasn't peak hp/tq. I for one know that it's the midrange where your dyno shows the widest delta that I felt my increase with my parts. BTW, I plan on getting the Borla mufflers...just no one seems to have them in stock. Oh, and thanks for the dyno sheets..that's much better now. Much easier to decipher them.

Dave

 

I had the prototype car. I loved the sound. Was MUCH smoother to launch, the car didnt want to stall as much. The video clips dont capture how loud or growly it was. Much closer to a tubi then anything else.

 

im new to porsche but with vettes, borla or any other exhaust didnt produce anywhere near the manufacturer's claims.

i find it hard to believe porsche would leave 26hp on the table by not installing a good exhaust.

if you want to prove your claims, let an indepent tuner verify it.

btw, im not saying you dont have a quality built product.

just that your hp claims seem a bit silly to those of us who have modded long enough

 

The 26rwhp that Chris is talking about is the widest delta point. Peak hp is actually only a gain of 14rwhp with the headers and mufflers according to the dyno's that has been shown.

Dave