2nd Place?? 997 '09 vs BMW M3 '09
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As far as I was concerned after driving one it was never even close to being considered.
But if you need the practicality and/or have kids good luck to you, but it's no 911.
We pretty much see this the same way.Originally Posted by Le Chef
I really don't care if a magazine (any magazine) prefers the M3 to a 997 and thinks it's faster, I'm not buying one. I have driven both current and last generation M3 owned by friends who encourage fast driving, and I cannot see why anyone would buy one unless they had children. Incidentally one traded up for an M5 and the other a CSL63 because they wanted something faster and more spacious for their growing children. One has a GT3 as a track car and the other a 964 RSA.As far as I was concerned after driving one it was never even close to being considered.
But if you need the practicality and/or have kids good luck to you, but it's no 911.
BTW, do you think there's any significant difference in insurance costs between them?
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I have a buddy that has the V8 M3, excellent driver but is not able to keep with me in my 997.1 (both cars have the same mods, plus Brembo GT 380's 6 piston brakes). He keeps mumbling in his British accent, I should have bought a Carrera)
I have the magazine, I have pretty much decided that there comparo test are a waste of time reading them. Compare a sports car to a sports sedan and it seems as if the deciding factors are Trunk space. WTF? My Touareg is bigger holds more cargo and can tow my Porsche to the Track, where my Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long.
Just me 2 cents
If your friend can't keep up with you in his M3, he is doing something wrong. He should obliterate your old 997 S.Originally Posted by NorthVan997C2S
BMW spends more money advertising with C&D.I have a buddy that has the V8 M3, excellent driver but is not able to keep with me in my 997.1 (both cars have the same mods, plus Brembo GT 380's 6 piston brakes). He keeps mumbling in his British accent, I should have bought a Carrera)
I have the magazine, I have pretty much decided that there comparo test are a waste of time reading them. Compare a sports car to a sports sedan and it seems as if the deciding factors are Trunk space. WTF? My Touareg is bigger holds more cargo and can tow my Porsche to the Track, where my Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long.
Just me 2 cents
Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
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+1, glad to see someone gets it.Originally Posted by JohnM
I got a copy of that issue a few days before ordering a 997S. Did not change my mind, even though I was deciding between the M3 and 911! In the latest dozen tests or so, it has been all too clear that the new M is faster around a track than a base 911, and maybe even an S (at least until the brakes fail). According to the mags, it has been mostly because of the cars handling, not price. The last test even had Randy pobst, who normally campaigns a 911 in SCCA, to test the cars. He came away stating that the new M was simply a better handler than the 911 turbo (in every category) and his sector times were better in the M than the 911. Regardless of this, I think that when it comes to character, the 911 can't be beat, and that is why most 911 owners would not consider the Nissan GTR either. The M deserves respect however, and I am glad that both of these cars are excellent examples of what companies can do!!! I just wish I could have both.....
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Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
I leave M3's behind every time I'm on the track, and mine's a cab. They don't represent a real challenge. Far more difficult are Exiges and Elises. I guess M3's are driven by the typical family guy who can't swing a 997 and so tries to make up for it by bragging. Never mind.Originally Posted by CURI0
If your friend can't keep up with you in his M3, he is doing something wrong. He should obliterate your old 997 S.Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
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I agree - it's likely due to the slower car being driven by the superior driver. Not really a new lesson there, but congrats to you on your driving.Originally Posted by Le Chef
I leave M3's behind every time I'm on the track, and mine's a cab. They don't represent a real challenge. Far more difficult are Exiges and Elises. I guess M3's are driven by the typical family guy who can't swing a 997 and so tries to make up for it by bragging. Never mind.
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Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
Perhaps he is doing something wrong, but I have yet to see a M3 that can keep up with a 997. I did a number of track days with M3's and have yet to see one keep up with a 997 mine or any other. My 997 is not a GT3, I have made no attempts to make it look like one, or even suggest that it is one. I think the GT3 would be great to have, but I will have to deal with my 997C2S for now.Originally Posted by CURI0
If your friend can't keep up with you in his M3, he is doing something wrong. He should obliterate your old 997 S.Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
Perhaps your track and my track are two different things. I don't do 1/4 mile, doesn't interest me, if that is what floats your boat and the M3 is faster then the 997, then I will have to take your word for it.
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Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
Originally Posted by CURI0
If your friend can't keep up with you in his M3, he is doing something wrong. He should obliterate your old 997 S.Your Porsche will kick the M3 around the track all day long? Haha, someone is mistaking their 997 for a GT3
Ed is a very fast driver in his modded 997S. I was at PIR with him when he handled the M3 without any problem.
The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
And let's add fuel to the fire. Forget my driving because I'm probably average at best as a driver.
An acquaintance who is a PCA instructor and clearly a good driver has taken the same pupil round in the pupil's M3 and a base C2 on two different tracks (both used frequently by PCA so no learning curve) with the same result. The 997 has a measurable performance advantage over the M3. One track is just over 2 miles long the other is just under 4 miles long.
An acquaintance who is a PCA instructor and clearly a good driver has taken the same pupil round in the pupil's M3 and a base C2 on two different tracks (both used frequently by PCA so no learning curve) with the same result. The 997 has a measurable performance advantage over the M3. One track is just over 2 miles long the other is just under 4 miles long.
I had an M3 on order for 10 months, then drove the 997, cancelled the M3 order and drove the 997 home within a week. Very happy with the decision - especially when I see all those "ordinary" 320i's buzzing about with wheels and body kits.
But most fun in a car ever? 1965 Austin Mini 850 on cross-plies in the wet. Now that really WAS a hoot!
But most fun in a car ever? 1965 Austin Mini 850 on cross-plies in the wet. Now that really WAS a hoot!
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The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
Tim, just to keep things clear, the M3 has the same mods (and Brembo GT Brakes) that my car has. I think that you will just fine with #13 around the track. Originally Posted by Targa Tim
Ed is a very fast driver in his modded 997S. I was at PIR with him when he handled the M3 without any problem.The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
And thanks for the compliment about my driving, but I still have a lot to learn.
Personally I do not pick a car just for performance only or how fast the car is. It has to have the perfect profile from the front, side, and back. As long as I'm within my budget I'm getting it. So therefore IMHO the 911 says it all.
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The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
I would gladly, it is the driver that makes the difference.Originally Posted by Targa Tim
Ed is a very fast driver in his modded 997S. I was at PIR with him when he handled the M3 without any problem.The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
The M3 is the faster car around the track by a large margin with equal drivers, as professional drivers have shown.
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Funny, I dust 997's. Typical family guy who can't swing a 997? At least you aren't ignorantly stereotyping... oh wait, you are.Originally Posted by Le Chef
I leave M3's behind every time I'm on the track, and mine's a cab. They don't represent a real challenge. Far more difficult are Exiges and Elises. I guess M3's are driven by the typical family guy who can't swing a 997 and so tries to make up for it by bragging. Never mind.
I guess the typical 997 guy is one who couldn't swing a real race bred Porsche with a GT1 derived block, eh?
Personally, I found the 997S way too slow and felt the motor wasn't anywhere near up to par. It also bothered me that the Cayman would run circles around it if Porsche wasn't forceably holding it back to protect an inferior/outdated platform.
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The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
I don't doubt this at all. But, I personally was not referring to a 997S, but rather a base 911 (as was the article that spawned this thread). There's a pretty significant difference.Originally Posted by Targa Tim
Ed is a very fast driver in his modded 997S. I was at PIR with him when he handled the M3 without any problem.The way I see it, you don't need a GT3 to beat an M3 on the track, any 997S with a good driver will do.
No need to keep arguing, you can meet us at PIR with your M3 next time. If you can beat my stock club coupe, then you're allowed to challenge Ed.
I suspect the performance is very close between the two (997.2 PDK vs M3 DCT), with the M3 slightly ahead in most comparisons, including track (at least for a few laps - haven't heard great things about stock M3 brakes). I'd also expect a close competition of 997.1S vs M3, but with the Porsche slightly aheand in most comparisons. I'm confident that 997.2S is significantly superior in virtually all performance stats vs M3.
I prefer the 997.2S or a used 997.1 4S over the M3. It's not a bash of the M3; it's a great car at a good price. The Porsches are just better, for a reasonable increment in price.