Hi Curio,

The argument between M3 and 997S can go on forever here and there will be no winner at the end, but I agree with you that the driver is making a difference here.

We all know that 997S has the Nurburgring time of about 8 minutes, and it again varies depending on which driver, tires, suspension, etc. Do you happen to have the ring time of the M3?

Regarding 911 having an inferior platform, can't argue about that as it is what it is. There is only 3 platforms to choose from - front, mid and back. There are fast cars in each platform and you cannot say one is better than the other. The current faster road car ring time is corvette zr1 and it is front platform. So does it mean front platform is the best?

All I can say is 911 has 40+ years of sport car history and it is the dream car of a lot of people. M3 cannot even come close. 911 will continue to exist for a long time and there will always be one in my garage.

 

According to Wikipedia (yea, I know, but it fits the conversation):

997.2S: 7:50
E92 (coupe) M3: 8:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

YMMV

 

As you alluded to before- there are so many intangibles that make a "car" a "car"-- obviously anyone on this board could have bought a Corvette and that could smoke both the M3 and the 997- but really is that the bottom line?

I am sure that you would not trade your M3 for a Vette? Why- because for the intangible variables we were both alluding to- A Vette is not neccessarily a "better" car than the Bimmer- it may be FASTER but not neccessarily more enjoyable- your call.

The same could be said of the M3 vs the 997- even if the M3 was faster around a track and that appears to be debatable- would I or others think that the M3 was the BETTER car????

I know I wouldn't- I have had many Bimmers and they are great cars- recently I had a 6 Series Vert- great car- as well as the M3 is a great car- still would rather have the 997.

There are more to these cars than their lap times at Sebring. The myriad of emotions that is derived from driving a Porsche is on another level than a BMW- although the BMW is a great car- not the same driving experience. The same could be said of the Vette vs. either car- the Vette is a monster and a great value in many ways- but at the end of the day- which car would you rather drive?

There are no right or wrong answers here- it's just a personal choice.

Cheers-

SD

 

It is all personal choice, I would not trade my M3 for anything at the moment. Some guy with a Vette wouldn't trade it for anything, all comes down to the individual.

We can't quantify the subjective, but performance, we can get a good idea.

 

Not an accurate comparison as you are using a 997S with Cup sports. The previous generation M3 CSL with the same tires did a 7:50, the same time.

Also, the M3 time you quoted is not the DCT, which is significantly quicker around the track. For example, around Laguna Seca, Road and Track (or maybe CD) showed the DCT M3 is only a couple tenths off the 997 Turbo, which has significantly more power.

 

I guess it's hard for you to accept this when you're on a Porsche forum but all the data and personal experience shows us that the M3 doesn't cut it. I have seen the lap times and the M3 does not beat the 997.

Howl as loud as you like but nobody here is believing you. If you don't like that fact, trolling here is not going to help you one iota, other than make you look childish and stupid. Your call if if you want to stay here.

I suggest if you want bragging rights then an M3 forum with people who agree with you will be a better place to be.

 

Even a DCT M3 will not take anywhere near 15 seconds of the 8:05.

Compare the CSL to the GT3 not a 911S. All great cars, but c'mon. The CSL was ahead of its' time.

Am I the only one who is suspicious of the R&T M3 vs. tt race? Sorry, but they're called rags for a reason.

 

 

The fact is that most people who settle for the M3 obviously cannot afford a 911 so they rationalize on their deficiencies. I've had friends who have both and nobody told me that they prefer their M3 over their 911. tsk.. tsk..

Vic

 

I don't doubt that a bit.

However, the M3 IS faster than a C2 997 given similarly skilled drivers.

THAT is the subject of the thread, and the conclusion of the subject article.

The odd part is, multiple 911 fans (owners?) here seem to struggle to accept it - as if it's an insult. If anyone here is under the ILLUSION that a Porsche is the cheapest way to go fast, or that there's no way to go faster, cheaper, they're WRONG.

Accept your base 911 for what it is; a fantastic car, a great bit of engineering, history, style and exclusivity that's also stupid-fast. SO WHAT if an M3 or a 'vette or 2010 Camaro is faster in a straight line or even on the track?

Calling out fans of the M3 as insecure poseurs and generally falling apart at the allegation or appearance that the M3 is faster than the base 911 is hardly convincing that it's the M3 fan who is the poseur.

 

As much as I love BMW (and the M3), I'd take the 911 in a heartbeat.

 

Haha, you have to be kidding me. Did you miss the data in the first post? Perhaps you have trouble with your sight?

Nobody is believing me? Car and Driver seems to believe it. Road and Track seems to believe it. Doesn't surprise me that a guy howling on the 997 forum doesn't. There are actually a few level headed people here who get it, obviously you aren't one of them.

I don't need bragging rights, I know exactly how my car stands against the various 997's. The M3 is far quicker around a track or in a straightline than the MK1 997 or S and the MKII 997, still don't have enough data on the 997S.2 other than the dyno numbers. You need to up your M3 IQ. One thing we can settle on is your 997 cab would get absolutely annihilated by my M3 in any measurable aspect of performance, unless you can't see that?

 

You don't seem to be struggling with it, this post is spot on.

I can't believe someone actually suggested an M3 owner can't afford a 997. This may be true for the guy struggling to lease his M3, but if I wanted a 997, I'd have one, or two.

 

Didn't the road test that you are referring to show that the MKII 997 was faster in a straight line?

 

DCT won't take 15 seconds off a lap time around the ring, but combine it with R compounds, and it is entirely possible to match if not beat.

Without the R compounds, the 997S laps 10+ seconds slower.