2nd Place?? 997 '09 vs BMW M3 '09
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Yes Sir. After 2 years I'll turn 18. I'll go into the bar and buy my first beer, and then run to the nearest BMW dealer to get my dream car, it starts with an M...
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M3's are fat crap boxes with horrible brakes (just look at the evolution from e36 to now)!
Cheers to the IS-F!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQS...eature=related
*note: horrible video and race, i know. I just love watching the outcome!
Cheers to the IS-F!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQS...eature=related
*note: horrible video and race, i know. I just love watching the outcome!
Last edited by RiceEater; Jan 27, 2009 at 09:49 PM.
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M3's are fat crap boxes with horrible brakes (just look at the evolution from e36 to now)!
Cheers to the IS-F!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQS...eature=related
*note: horrible video and race, i know. I just love watching the outcome!
Cheers to the IS-F!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyQS...eature=related
*note: horrible video and race, i know. I just love watching the outcome!
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It is kind of like the Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor, nobody expected this to happen.
Perhaps if we continue to tell you the 997 is better, you will be happier.
Perhaps if we continue to tell you the 997 is better, you will be happier.
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Perhaps if we continue to tell you the 997 is better, you will be happier.
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Interesting read, but as I said earlier there will be no winner in this M3 vs 997 argument no matter how long we argue.
But one thing is for sure, this is a 997 forum, our 997 forum, OUR HOUSE, and WE RULE.
Now some stranger comes in and said his wife looks better than mine, and here's my responses:
1. I don't care, get out.
2. Your wife looks ugly, get out.
3. Yes, I agree that your wife looks better, but she is not my type, get out.
4. Nobody tells me that my wife is ugly, get out.
5. This is MY HOUSE, so get the fxxk out.
But one thing is for sure, this is a 997 forum, our 997 forum, OUR HOUSE, and WE RULE.
Now some stranger comes in and said his wife looks better than mine, and here's my responses:
1. I don't care, get out.
2. Your wife looks ugly, get out.
3. Yes, I agree that your wife looks better, but she is not my type, get out.
4. Nobody tells me that my wife is ugly, get out.
5. This is MY HOUSE, so get the fxxk out.
I have both . A 997tt and an M3 . I had a 997S (two actually- an 05 and an 07 ) . Hands down I would take the 997S . The M3 is fast , practical and would not wimp out at all agaisnt a 997S .
Perhaps car lovers claim (paraphrasing) "my wife is the best" and its interpreted as "other wives are not" .
The M3 is a great one night stand -(actually 8 months so far) but it's not one of those cars that i want to run home jump into and drive .
The Porsche is . Whether the Porsche is in my house , another house, or on the street -- it's a sexy beast that calls out be driven hard , over and over again. Probably driven more than a "wife" depending on the marriage.
The M3 is great relief from a car rental after a trip or a long period of not driving -- but it isn't and will never be a Porsche.
Last edited by yrralis1; Jan 28, 2009 at 01:45 AM.
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Hi Kurt,
when 997S first came out few years ago, Autocar magazine did a group test with 997S, F430, Ford GT, Corvette C6, Aston V8, BMW M5 and a bunch of others. 997S beat the F430 in both the dry and wet track times and was declared the performance car of the year regardless of car price that year.
sure it is just one test, but it was an objective one published by a magazine that I think has more weight than C & D.
when 997S first came out few years ago, Autocar magazine did a group test with 997S, F430, Ford GT, Corvette C6, Aston V8, BMW M5 and a bunch of others. 997S beat the F430 in both the dry and wet track times and was declared the performance car of the year regardless of car price that year.
sure it is just one test, but it was an objective one published by a magazine that I think has more weight than C & D.
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Data doesn't lie.
Industry data (that I can't reveal for obvious reasons) shows some interesting insights, albeit by industry standards from a miniscule base.
Many 997 purchasers shopped the M3 before buying the 997.
Many M3 purchasers did not shop the 997, but shopped the Audi S4, BMW 335, C63, Infiniti G35/37, Nissan 350Z.
Porsche's tend to be part of a multi-car household, whereas the M3 has more single car households.
In terms of conquest sales more people moved from the M3 to the 997 than the other way round. So Porsche were gaining conquest sales. Loyalty in terms of retention for the 911 is higher than for the M3.
You could deduce from that data that Porsche owners tried the M3 and rejected it. Once a 911 they were more likely to buy another 911 than move to an M3.
M3 owners were split in terms of loyalty. No clear conclusion, but the conquest sales trend was in favor of the 997.
Regardless of who ever says "mine's bigger than yours" the actual preference data shows that Porsche wins where it matters, which is with the wallet.
Industry data (that I can't reveal for obvious reasons) shows some interesting insights, albeit by industry standards from a miniscule base.
Many 997 purchasers shopped the M3 before buying the 997.
Many M3 purchasers did not shop the 997, but shopped the Audi S4, BMW 335, C63, Infiniti G35/37, Nissan 350Z.
Porsche's tend to be part of a multi-car household, whereas the M3 has more single car households.
In terms of conquest sales more people moved from the M3 to the 997 than the other way round. So Porsche were gaining conquest sales. Loyalty in terms of retention for the 911 is higher than for the M3.
You could deduce from that data that Porsche owners tried the M3 and rejected it. Once a 911 they were more likely to buy another 911 than move to an M3.
M3 owners were split in terms of loyalty. No clear conclusion, but the conquest sales trend was in favor of the 997.
Regardless of who ever says "mine's bigger than yours" the actual preference data shows that Porsche wins where it matters, which is with the wallet.
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In all honesty, I was joking and being harshly sarcastic.
Overall, I feel like the M3 is a really good sedan. But it is NO dedicated sports car: bloated weight, horrible brakes, "typical" front engine sedan car handling dynamics.
LeChef makes a great point above about data and car loyalty. The 911 has it's own market. Many of us have tried to leave it, but end up coming back because of several reasons.
What I'm really having an issue with is M3 fanboys accepting the mag hype (same issue I have with the GTR). It's a great car. It's not THAT great, c'mon. It still has a lot of room for improvement. Aside from that, it is a fixed up 3-series, analogous to a Honda Civic and it's "Si" counterpart (bottom of the barrel, entry level car). Owners may as well try to shove the m5 v10 motor in the 3 series engine bay, it has more horses.. yay! (sorry more sarcasm).
Yeah, I don't get the whole "sporty sedan" phenomenon, just like how I don't get Cayenne turbo's, AMG's, etc. I don't buy it. These cars were never designed from the outset to handle the horsepower or last on the track.
So when I mentioned that the ISF was "better", it kind of is. It's cheaper, and offers similar performance. It's not trying as hard as an m3 to pose as a sports car. Hell, I think the IS250 is a better car than the m3 because it does what it's supposed to do: save gas, be comfortable, be trouble free.
Now that I'm done contradicting myself several times over, I'll leave with words inspired by TargaTim:
"Yes, I agree your wife is pretty, but why are you so competitive about saying she's prettier than my wife. It's no contest. Your wife is a post-op tranny, and my wife is the real deal. Enjoy your wife, and I'll enjoy mine. Oh, and please, get the fxxk out of my house now."
Overall, I feel like the M3 is a really good sedan. But it is NO dedicated sports car: bloated weight, horrible brakes, "typical" front engine sedan car handling dynamics.
LeChef makes a great point above about data and car loyalty. The 911 has it's own market. Many of us have tried to leave it, but end up coming back because of several reasons.
What I'm really having an issue with is M3 fanboys accepting the mag hype (same issue I have with the GTR). It's a great car. It's not THAT great, c'mon. It still has a lot of room for improvement. Aside from that, it is a fixed up 3-series, analogous to a Honda Civic and it's "Si" counterpart (bottom of the barrel, entry level car). Owners may as well try to shove the m5 v10 motor in the 3 series engine bay, it has more horses.. yay! (sorry more sarcasm).
Yeah, I don't get the whole "sporty sedan" phenomenon, just like how I don't get Cayenne turbo's, AMG's, etc. I don't buy it. These cars were never designed from the outset to handle the horsepower or last on the track.
So when I mentioned that the ISF was "better", it kind of is. It's cheaper, and offers similar performance. It's not trying as hard as an m3 to pose as a sports car. Hell, I think the IS250 is a better car than the m3 because it does what it's supposed to do: save gas, be comfortable, be trouble free.
Now that I'm done contradicting myself several times over, I'll leave with words inspired by TargaTim:
"Yes, I agree your wife is pretty, but why are you so competitive about saying she's prettier than my wife. It's no contest. Your wife is a post-op tranny, and my wife is the real deal. Enjoy your wife, and I'll enjoy mine. Oh, and please, get the fxxk out of my house now."
Last edited by RiceEater; Jan 28, 2009 at 09:24 AM. Reason: typos
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In all honesty, I was joking and being harshly sarcastic.
Overall, I feel like the M3 is a really good sedan. But it is NO dedicated sports car: bloated weight, horrible brakes, "typical" front engine sedan car handling dynamics.
LeChef makes a great point above about data and car loyalty. The 911 has it's own market. Many of us have tried to leave it, but end up coming back because of several reasons.
What I'm really having an issue with is M3 fanboys accepting the mag hype (same issue I have with the GTR). It's a great car. It's not THAT great, c'mon. It still has a lot of room for improvement. Aside from that, it is a fixed up 3-series, analogous to a Honda Civic and it's "Si" counterpart (bottom of the barrel, entry level car). Owners may as well try to shove the m5 v10 motor in the 3 series engine bay, it has more horses.. yay! (sorry more sarcasm).
Yeah, I don't get the whole "sporty sedan" phenomenon, just like how I don't get Cayenne turbo's, AMG's, etc. I don't buy it. These cars were never designed from the outset to handle the horsepower or last on the track.
So when I mentioned that the ISF was "better", it kind of is. It's cheaper, and offers similar performance. It's not trying as hard as an m3 to pose as a sports car. Hell, I think the IS250 is a better car than the m3 because it does what it's supposed to do: save gas, be comfortable, be trouble free.
Now that I'm done contradicting myself several times over, I'll leave with words inspired by TargaTim:
"Yes, I agree you're wife is pretty, but why are you so competitive about saying she's prettier than my wife. It's no contest. She's a post-op tranny, and my wife is the real deal. Enjoy your wife, and I'll enjoy mine. Oh, and please, get the fxxk out of my house now."
Overall, I feel like the M3 is a really good sedan. But it is NO dedicated sports car: bloated weight, horrible brakes, "typical" front engine sedan car handling dynamics.
LeChef makes a great point above about data and car loyalty. The 911 has it's own market. Many of us have tried to leave it, but end up coming back because of several reasons.
What I'm really having an issue with is M3 fanboys accepting the mag hype (same issue I have with the GTR). It's a great car. It's not THAT great, c'mon. It still has a lot of room for improvement. Aside from that, it is a fixed up 3-series, analogous to a Honda Civic and it's "Si" counterpart (bottom of the barrel, entry level car). Owners may as well try to shove the m5 v10 motor in the 3 series engine bay, it has more horses.. yay! (sorry more sarcasm).
Yeah, I don't get the whole "sporty sedan" phenomenon, just like how I don't get Cayenne turbo's, AMG's, etc. I don't buy it. These cars were never designed from the outset to handle the horsepower or last on the track.
So when I mentioned that the ISF was "better", it kind of is. It's cheaper, and offers similar performance. It's not trying as hard as an m3 to pose as a sports car. Hell, I think the IS250 is a better car than the m3 because it does what it's supposed to do: save gas, be comfortable, be trouble free.
Now that I'm done contradicting myself several times over, I'll leave with words inspired by TargaTim:
"Yes, I agree you're wife is pretty, but why are you so competitive about saying she's prettier than my wife. It's no contest. She's a post-op tranny, and my wife is the real deal. Enjoy your wife, and I'll enjoy mine. Oh, and please, get the fxxk out of my house now."