First off, Let me express that I have tremendous respect for all the tuners and sponsors on this board, especially the main vendors on the 997 section, ie: Sharkwerks, AWE, Fabspeed, FVD, etc. I hope this thread does not insult any of those tuners at all, as that is not my intention at all.

Well, I was doing research on purchasing bypass pipes for my 997.2, specifically the bypass pipes for the center muffler. I was pretty surprised at the prices for such a simple set of pipes. I mean, prices range from $700 - $1000 for 2 pipes with maybe a 10 degree bend and two flanges that are 5 ft of total piping. The side bypass for the mufflers is in the $300-$500 range for literally two U shaped bends that are a foot long. The last thing I want to hear is a porsche tax to justify the prices. I am just wondering why these bypass kits are so expensive?

PS: This is me not being a cheap typical Greek. I am the first to pay top dollar for something that is worth it, but I might as well go to a local high end exhaust shop and get them fabricated instead

 

There's a lot of R&D that goes into these things from the reputable tuners. Prices are what they are, but one component is that there's a lot of time, effort and expense that goes into design and manufacture and that's one of the things that factors into price.

 

Greek I agreee. I still get the Corvette catalogs with all the stainless big tube pipes and they are so much less than the smaller pipes used on a Porsche. I never understood this either other than the market will bear these prices somewhat and in the past plenty of people have paid these prices.

 

Hey Greek, great question and I'll try to answer it as best I can Although on paper it might "seem" like it's super simple, the process isn't really that simple. Here's a few thoughts on the process:

1) The initial investment. As opposed to borrowing someone else's car for a short period of time we actually chose to get the $100K car. I think you get better field testing that way.
2) The R&D involved. The cost of the tig-welder (and supplies). On day 1 we bought a lot of steel to try different set ups for sound/power. We tried an X-pipe vs Bypass so factor in the time and materials there. Once we settled on a particular design we found it was _not_ just two u-bends. So there's proto-typing and field-testing for sound etc.. which is hard to put a $ figure on but again not free.
3) The cost/time to then dyno test these parts to make sure that we can stand behind the part every time and put our name on it. I can't speak for other shops but I know the cost of owning/running their dynos is expensive too.
4) The physical parts themselves. Stainless isn't cheap (not the good quality stuff) and in small volume too. Remember we're only making 10-20 at a time. The labor to get it done. The cost for the flanges.
5) Cost for auxillary hardware including clamps, bolts etc...
6) Then there's the other stuff like shipping supplies (boxes/packing materials)
7) Writing up instructions and then after sales support etc... (hard to put a number on it). Factor in the product liability/insurance etc.. (again not cheap).
8) We also have an overhead just to keep the doors open. If we were making hundreds of these at a time we could probably keep the cost lower by buying in bulk but again with the tiny numbers we're talking about I think you can see we're obviously not making as much as you'd think. Then we need the money all-over again to make some more

I probably forgot a bunch of stuff but I at least wanted to give you an idea of what's involved We don't make many parts but when we do we want to make sure they're 100% every time.

 

Good explanation Alex!

 

Thanks Alex...good business explaination.

 

alex id have to agree. i try to tell my customers this on the reg but people at the end of the day are just going to see the finished product and say huh? greek this is from another greek. it is what it is. now its your opt to choose to buy fabspeed or local muffler shop.

 

Greek...it's only money! Let's do a few shots of Uzo to lessen the pain and purchase the pipes!

OPA!!

 

Sold, Alex I would like to buy a set. I am going away to Birmingham for the Porsche Driving School this weekend and will contact you upon my Return.....save a set for me.

 

Lockie, If you are going to be in town this weekend expect rain. Hopefully it will hold off.

 

you gotta be kidding......I went 2 years ago and got rained out.......its so far to go for us and you have to book so far in advance

just checked......not too bad

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 75.

Saturday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 54.

Sunday: A 30 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 73.

 

Greek -if I had a 997.2 I would put his exhaust on the car . Even though I have never met Alex and live on the other side of the map I have always been impressed with his work . Take some time to look at some of the photographs of the installation as well as read the posts of so many here who respect his ability to make these cars special .

As for price -many of the European parts cost a lot more -- I have bought many for my car . You can choose to leave the car stock and never know what you could have had or you can jump in and customize your car enhancing its place in your heart as a lifetime memory .

It's all up to you .

 

Ok, I think I am giving off the wrong impression with the thread. I wasnt trying to be cheap at all, nor was I saying that the work the tuners do was not worth the price. I just made the thread to get the opinions of what fellow members though about the bypass pipes. You see so many times where products that were made for higher end cars have a higher price tag, but not always is that because the product was difficult to produce.

When it comes to header systems, full exhaust systems, intakes, especially ECU's, and other assorted items, I would never question the work that goes into those items, nor the price that accompanied them. But if your going to say that bypass pipes and the products I listed above require the same R&D, then I would have to say I respectively disagree. Anyway, its all a moot point now, as I am probably going to purchase the pipes soon. Dont want the car to loud, and with the limited choices of full header/exhaust kits right now for the 997.2, the center delete is a perfect mod for me. Thanks again for all your posts guys. Also much respect for Alex from Sharkwerks to take the time to explain the process. I'll post some vid's up of the exhaust when I call Alex to order them.

John156e - I know quite a bit about cars, so when I looked at the photo's of the bypass pipes, I don't recall me thinking, "huh?" What I did think was that I could have the same pipes made for a lower price. And the local muffler shop I was describing in my first post was Vortex Motorsports, who have extensive experience in dealing with Porsche race cars, along with high end street versions. Not your everyday Midas local muffler shop.

 

Greek -- I am one who likes to question everything .
You have to decide for yourself what you think works best for you .

I can't think of even one time where I didn't walk out of one of my $20K mod install frenzy estimate that I didn't have some doubts UNTIL I drove the car afterwards .

What you are going through sounds kinda normal .
It's going be ok . You'll see.

 

I understand your question Greek. I have a friend who says" In God we trust, all else audit". I am not that hard nose yet but it is good to know where your hard earned dollars go.