Exactly. My 5 month old c2s was as new as any "new" 911 on the lot. Original owner had to get rid of the car because the market turned on him. Maybe because he was leasing the 911, invested the $100k and then lost half of it in stocks. Not that infrequent in 2007 iirc.

 

My reply was to Rodsky and his example was from 2009 and it was ambiguous.

You would not lose 27K on that C2 with whatever mileage restrictions they have .

Do you think Porsche is just giving you something for nothing?

 

I want to comment on this "991 factor" because you are the second poster on this thread to attempt this reasoning as a justification to lease the car.

Historically Porsche 911 do retain their value . A used 996 can still cost 30K(or more) and a 993 might cost even more . To think that a 991 is somehow is going to tarnish the worth of a 2011 997 is not just ridiculous it's not even grounded in past Porsche used car figures.

 

Sure plop down $27k, drive it off the lot and your car gets totalled. You think you are getting any of that $27k back? Even the biggest noob knows that when leasing one always wants to put the minimum, meaning zero, down. Look, you came here for advice but obviously you are not listening to the majority of us. Go ahead and lease your car, best of luck. But your attitude is better suited to an M3 than a 997.2 imo.

 

Leasing can make sense when you actually have cash on hand. In that case, you have the option to invest your money while making monthly lease payments. Your return on investment could offset the financial costs associated with the lease term. Obviously, there is always a risk if you're not a good investor and/or the market crashes.

 

I guess that the biggest unknown in all of this is how good the numbers on the lease actually are. This is not know and so honestly this is a completely moot subject. The lease terms that my friend got made it more financially adventagous to go with a G37 than an Accord... Go figure! In this case it made no sense at all to do anything else. But who knows what the terms are right now for Porsche. The only way to know is to run the numbers for buying and leasing and see what makes sense from there.

 

When you look at cars in or around the same price range Porsche.
gets a premium.
you could lease a new Mercedes SL550 msrp 110k for around $1400 a month
Porsche 911 S cab be around 1800

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for buying a used car and am also in the market to purchase a used one. My whole point is not to discuss the topic of new vs used as we probably share the same perspective on such topic.

I just want to point out the fact that the difference of cost calculated in the previous post wasn't exactly fair in regards to the lease vs purchase argument.

A more fair perspective calculating the cost of ownership through a lease program would be taking the msrp of a vehicle minus the loss from the 20% depreciation value, then using such number to plug it into a lease calculation in obtaining monthly payment, such would imo provide a better perspective.

From your previous calculation, it just happen that you gave a 20% advantage to the cost of ownership in owning a car in comparing a lease on a brand new price, hence my point that the calculation wasn't exactly fair in the lease vs purchase argument.

 

If the residual values used in a lease calculation represent real world values then a lease should be similar to buying a car and selling after 3 or 4 years. Residual values are at times manipulated by the car companies to make the monthly payments lower.... good for the consumer but not sustainable, as BMW has learned.

The real issue with leasing is that the buyer and car dealer focus on monthly payments ( cashflow) rather than the overall cost and the buyer ( leasee) ends up jumping up to a more expensive car for the same monthly payments. This inceases the likeliness that the leasee will be stuck on the lease treadmill for ever. If one had purchased/financed the car, generally one would get less car for the money and would end up owning the car after the 3 or 4 years. That person just increased their net worth. They do not have the newest car but can have years of ownership with no payments. If the money is saved, one can, after a number purchases, accumulate enough funds to buy the cars with cash.

For practical purposes, this is really the difference between leasing and buying for most folks.

 

This is false !!!
When Porsche had programs like "The Porsche Moment" there were incentives .

In fact back in 2008 and 2009 the incentives were so huge that it led to BOTH purchase and lease discounts . However the leases back then could not compete with the purchase deals. One can not compare the 10 -20 pecent off to a lease deal where the same 100K car leased at 1300-1600 per month .see here ... (lease prices of that time discussed in depth ) https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...stion-two.html

The ONLY reason why a 2009 deal was discussed was because the " two year old 100K car selling for 75K " --topic referred to 2009 so the deals of that year were both (buy and lease) on the plate using the numbers of that time.

 

Great point !!!
In fact even 10 year old Porsche 911 cars (model year 2002) with less than 30K miles are asking between 30-40K . these cars do hold their value and a person can buy one , have the car long term and come out way ahead than years of leasing where he ends up with nothing .

 

Bingo !!! That's because underneath the smokescreen of the catchy lease terms and the plausible sounding monthly payment .. is PROFIT !!!!
The terms and numbers game are a mathematical manipulation used to confuse the buyer in his eager mood. His focus becomes one monthly payment rather than the long term expense .

Listening to a salesman present the lease is almost like watching a magician do a card trick where he gets to bring his own deck of cards .

 

Hmmm, I don't think it's that simple... I agree that you build up equity in your car as you make monthly payments when you finance, and you own it once all the payments are made. However, lease payments are typically much lower than financing so one can still increase their net worth by investing the difference between the two payments. You don't own the car at the end of your lease, but you end up with a stock portofolio, which is just a different type of asset in your net worth.

I used to think paying cash for cars was the way to go, but I changed my mind because 1) cars are not liquid assets (it takes time to sell), 2) there are other investment options that have much better chance of appreciating in value than a car, and 3) the current interest rates are so low it doesn't cost much to borrow money if you have good credit.

Please keep in mind, this does not apply if you're only able to afford the lease payments. If you're in that situation, you should save more or consider a cheaper car.

 

What you are saying make sense, in theory. The reality however, is that the buyer ( leasee) most often moves up to a more expensive car for the same monthly payment. (this is one reason why many Americans drive new fancy cars and have limited net worth). This makes the investment issue even worse. At the end of the lease, in reality, they have limited cash for a down payment on the next car and are trapped in the new car lease again. This is why leasing, in reality, for most folks, destroys net worth or the opportunity to increase net worth. Again, this may not apply to Porsche or other higher end brand drivers, but for the avarage consumer it is a treadmill.

 

There's no doubt that in the long term, buying a gently used car or a deeply discounted new car and holding on to it after it's paid off (if financed) is cheaper than leasing a new car every 3 years. That's not the point of this thread though. For those of us that like to have a new car every three years, know how leasing works, negotiate price before discussing financing, and don't like selling expensive used cars every three years, leasing can be a smart decision.
I've owned German cars out of warranty, and they can get very expensive to maintain. I prefer to own cars under the original warranty, will get rid of the next one before the 40k service and move on.
Although the residuals are not great, the MF on the mid-engine models at least, is very good. I've run the numbers and the monthly payment on a lease vs financing for the length of time where the buy out is the same as the lease residual in three years is very close.
I initally was leaning towards buying a CPO '09 Cayman S and keeping it for a while, but there are hardly any out there right now and I need a car by the end of July. The long term reliability of the DFI engines was a question mark to me as well, there have been problems with carboning, HPFP in other brands, so I'd rather let someone else take the risk. Risk mitigation always costs money.