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Springs vs Coilovers........Yes another debate, need some help.
Hey guys!
Been wrestling back and forth, as I know a lot of you have in the past, on whether to do springs or coilovers on my 2010 Carrera S. My sole purpose is to lower the car a bit and give it a more aggressive stance, and eliminate the wheel gap, but not compromise performance or ride quality. After doing countless hours of searching and research, I am really at a toss up. I had H&R springs on my 2010 Cayman S, and while they gave the car a great stance and look.....it felt like crap. Way to stiff and bouncy. From my understanding, Carrera's equipped PSAM should go with Eibach springs, if you are going to go that route. What I would like to get is some real world input from those of you that have taken the plunge already, and what you liked and disliked.
Thank-you guys for your input!
1. Springs - Eibach, H&R or Techarts?
2. Coilovers - Eibach, H&R or Other Suggestions?
3. Installation - Would you recommend the dealer doing this? Or is it pretty straight forward that an indy shop could perform the install?
4. Needs - Strictly a fun weekend driver. No plans for track use I see in the future. Don't want to sacrifice ride/performance.
5. Budget - Not to concerned about the cost, as long as it fits the needs.
I've had coilovers and springs on many cars, and a 997.2 S w/PASM. Lowering a 997.2 with PASM causes issues since the motor is lower in the frame than the 997.1. I've bottomed out the rear of my 997.2 S completely stock CREEPING over speed bumps. Essentially my advise is coilovers versus springs, but I wouldn't do it to a 997.2 S as it's plenty low enough and people seem to forget a shock needs travel to work. Shorten the travel and you invite road manner and clearance issues, and you will worsen ride quality measurably. As for coilovers, I would only consider Bilstein or KW, and would probably go Bilstein. It's unfortunate that coilovers require lowering even when set to their maximum ride height. Where I live, the city can't seem to make a smooth road transition. Either of my cars (or either of my 997 S cars I had previously) would scrap the front end to death if lowered more than stock crossing through intersections where I live. No go for me.
I have the Bilstein Damptronic Coilovers. Pros: Can adjust ride height exactly how where you want it; compatible with PASM. Cons: ride is firmer than stock and likely firmer than on lowering springs; expensive.
**In normal mode the ride is firm but not bone-jarring (on Sport I would call it bone-jarring....). The upside to the firmness is you can go low without scraping (and the car handles like a go kart!). My car is pretty low and even with aggressive spacers I experience zero tire rub and do not bottom out on anything. The only scrapes come from steep driveways. I attribute this to minimal spring travel and the fact that the springs reset so quickly after dips, etc. Whereas lowering springs can have more of a bounce effect (at least on other vehicles I have owned).
I've had coilovers and springs on many cars, and a 997.2 S w/PASM. Lowering a 997.2 with PASM causes issues since the motor is lower in the frame than the 997.1. I've bottomed out the rear of my 997.2 S completely stock CREEPING over speed bumps. Essentially my advise is coilovers versus springs, but I wouldn't do it to a 997.2 S as it's plenty low enough and people seem to forget a shock needs travel to work.
What you're saying here makes no sense. I've had two 997.2 S's lowered on H&R's and never bottomed out once, even going across a speed bump faster than creeping. If you bottomed out creeping across a speed bump in a 997.2 S with stock suspension there were other issues going on imo.
Great info guys.....I am still on the fence I think. May end up doing the Eibachs or Techart springs and call it good. Like I said before....I think I will stay away from the H&R's just for the fact I did not like them at all on my Cayman S.
Originally Posted by sandwedge
What you're saying here makes no sense. I've had two 997.2 S's lowered on H&R's and never bottomed out once, even going across a speed bump faster than creeping. If you bottomed out creeping across a speed bump in a 997.2 S with stock suspension there were other issues going on imo.
Sandwedge.....Like you, I am not really worried to much about bottoming out. My Cayman was super low and never had an issue. My only concern is the drivability and the long term impact by going with springs. How long did you have the springs on your 997s, and did you have any issues? Thanks!
Eibachs are the way to go if you do springs. Techarts are made by Eibach too. H&R's have the lowest drop but are generally regarded as the worst handling. Eibach's will actually improve your handling with PASM shocks. I put them on my C2S and I dont expect to ever change them. They really made the car just stay much flatter in either PASM mode, but normal mode is the perfect mix of comfort and sporty feel now whereas I used to hate it because it was so damn bouncy. And sport mode is even tighter and flatter than before. I used to drive in sport all the time around town but now I only use it when I'm ready to get serious in some twisties.
Eibachs are the way to go if you do springs. Techarts are made by Eibach too. H&R's have the lowest drop but are generally regarded as the worst handling. Eibach's will actually improve your handling with PASM shocks. I put them on my C2S and I dont expect to ever change them. They really made the car just stay much flatter in either PASM mode, but normal mode is the perfect mix of comfort and sporty feel now whereas I used to hate it because it was so damn bouncy. And sport mode is even tighter and flatter than before. I used to drive in sport all the time around town but now I only use it when I'm ready to get serious in some twisties.
Thats exactly what I was hoping to hear.....this will probably be the route I go. Then a new set of wheels. Thanks for the info!
I had an indy shop install mine for around the same price as the springs (the dealer wanted 2.5 times as much) but they had no alignment equipment so a few days later I took it to the dealer for an alignment and it was surprising how screwed up the handling was after the springs were installed so be sure you budget in getting one sometime soon afterwards too.
What you're saying here makes no sense. I've had two 997.2 S's lowered on H&R's and never bottomed out once, even going across a speed bump faster than creeping. If you bottomed out creeping across a speed bump in a 997.2 S with stock suspension there were other issues going on imo.
I'm not saying all speed bumps. But some here in SA are tall and steep. If my car was any lower it would have beached. My car had no issues, suspension or otherwise. But ultimately when people prioritize a wheel arch gap over function, that's fail to me. I personally don't like the front end scraping for any reason, and I like the suspension to absorb bumps. My Cayman R with a special Bilstein-equipped sport suspension (OEM) is lower than my 997, will scrape over dips if you're not careful (especially at higher speeds), and is stiffer than PASM suspension in normal mode. I like it better than any Porsche suspension I've driven, but it's also as extreme as I'd ever want, and it's only 10mm lower than a PASM suspension.
Just to piggy back on a few other comments - we've done all sorts of setups for 997 customers here at the shop, and for the vast majority of customers the Eibach Pro Kit springs are the way to go. I typically give the people the option of H&R as they do go a bit lower, but also they come with a warning regarding the loss of ride quality. For those that want to go really low, I always advise them to go with a full coilover setup to gain some of that ride compliance back - but again my recommendation for almost everyone is the Eibachs - they just flat out perform.
And the alignment afterwards is essential. (Preferably get this done with a FULL tank of fuel) I cannot stress this enough, these cars are so sensitive to suspension changes!
If you've got any other questions - feel free to give me a shout!
Running Bilstein Coilovers on my 997.2 and couldn't be happier. Dropped down 2.5" from where it was stock and maintained the factory rake.
There can be issues with the front scraping, but driving with that in mind becomes 2nd nature when you drive low cars for long enough.
I cannot say enough about the ride improvement from stock though. So much more responsive and sporty feeling, without being jarring. Full disclaimer, I have driven some very low/stiff cars so I prefer stiffer than some others.
I would echo what others are saying about set up though. If you go coil be sure and have it corner balanced with driver weight included. Alignment-wise I did not go with anything too aggressive, as I don't want to go to far down the rabbit hole and end up spending 10k on the set up.
I can't really see spending the money for the car and then skimping when doing the suspension though.
I really think it comes down to intended use/purpose, as well as how involved you really want to get with tinkering. (Not to mention how sensitive you are to ride quality changes/stiffness).
All the big time manufacturers have great options, it really does come down to the setup and finding the ride need for each individual and their cars. There is no sense in overloading someone who wants to keep things very very simple, same goes for a track oriented guy who is used to a stiff setup and just tossing springs on his car.
I think the flexibility and options available to us really show how versatile the chassis of the car is to begin with, and the overall balance of the car really shines when making all these changes.
