This is one of my first posts and I just wanted to say that I am grateful to all the members who have contributed valuable advice via this forum. I've grown to become a big-big fan of the 6speedonline and I've learned a lot from all the veterans while reading for long hours at night- about my future car-to-be.

CANDIDATES - PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE

Top Tier (Eur 45-50k)

2006 PORSCHE 997.1 TURBO TIPTRONIC S / 80,000KM - nice all around, tiptronic is ok for commute, yet - like all turbos - it's got boy racer rear wings



2009 PORSCHE 997.1 C4 PDK / 60,000KM - nice all around, but much lower performance than TURBO (it's also a narrow body) love the curves on non-Turbos yet this is an Italian car so have sucked in plenty of hot air during spirited driving. Maybe PDK will compensate?



2008 PORSCHE 997.1 TURBO MANUAL / 140,000KM - my original top candidate, but I just learned today that it has been a "smoker vehicle", I'm a bit worried about the condition of the leather and also the 140k on the clock. I will never feel comfortable in a vehicle that smells like an ashtray, even if I looove the manual/turbo combo. Dealbreaker?



Second Tier (Eur 35-40k)

2007 PORSCHE 997.1 C2S / 60,000 KM - originally my 2nd candidate, nice all around but I heard today that it was imported from Italy so at least 2 owners, Combine this with the IMS bearing issues of this engine and suddenl;y I have second thoughts. Eliminate?



2007 PORSCHE 997.1 C4 / 150,000 KM - least likely as it's got way too many miles and it's a non-S version. Already eliminated!



For background - what I'm looking for:

One owner car is the most important thing for me, as I'm relying on the assumption that the first owner will usually take better care of his baby. I've owned a series of track bikes and used to own a BMW M3 and looking for my next daily driver, 50% commute, 45% canyon driving, 5% track. Don't care much for the commute (other than heated seats for winter) so I'm basing my decision on my weekend canyon driving and the occasional track use. All of the above cars have the Sport Chrono package, mostly by chance.

My driving style:

I would characterise my driving style as spirited freeride (using a snowboard analogy, I see Audi RS=alpine carving; Nissan Skyline=freestyle; E46 M3=freeride). In plain English, I enjoy the driving experience, and like cars which are fun at speed both on the piste (curvy roads) as well as in the park (track) and although I'm obviously a speed addict and love to race, the experience is more important..

Superbike analogy: I enjoy riding my R6 around a track more than a point-and-shoot style monster like a Hayabusha (actually went form R1 to R6 as it was more "freeride"). Funny that my lap times on the weaker/lighter R6 were also better as I probably just feel more at ease.

Preferences:

Indifferent re gearbox, fine either way almost. Manual is pure and keeps value better. Fine with the AUTO as I will be sitting in very SLOW traffic for at least 50% of the time. And the PDK/TIP does have the flappy pedals, so I can get engaged if I want for the rest of the time (ok not the same as rowing, but I'll also be commuting a lot). Prefer the PDK over Tiptronic for sure.. but is it worth downgrading two notches from a 480HP Turbo Tiptronic to a 345HP Carrera Vanilla at the same price point?

As I come from Superbikes, so I was told I should go straight for a Turbo and that I'll likely find the Carreras less exciting. From videos I confirm that I really love the whine and acceleration of the Turbos, the driver experience seems comparable to a superbike . Not sure about those boy racer rear wings though and I also wear a tie to work every day..

Driving resume:

Enjoyed my E46 M3 but I find new BMWs a bit too obvious and too "over the top" to be honest. I've tried around 15-20 cars over the past 6 months, ranging from a Porsche Boxsters to a BMW M4s. I know for a fact that heavy cars are not my thing. I found the Audi RS too clinical and too much "on rails" (alpine carving), Boxster was fun (freestyle teen) and I've fallen in love a bit, but it was slightly too "easy" to drive (blue piste) ie. not challenging/involving enough. The M4 felt like an ex boy racer hooligan who's gotten soft past his prime years (45 year old snowboarder with dyed hair playing it cool in the hütte apres-ski). I suspect the new wave of electric steering has sthng to do with my alienation from these historic cars. Never had a chance to drive an analogue 911 but from what I hear it's more HC (gang of splitboarders) than an M4 (hütte jodlee) and just as freestyle (party animator) as a Boxster.

So... I'm almost 100% sure this is the car for me.. But which one?
Please HELP!!

2006 Turbo Tip 80k



2009 C4 PDK 60K



2008 TURBO MANUAL 140K



2007 C2S 60K



2007 C4 150K

 

I'd do C2s hands down or the 08 turbo.Love the brown color

 

09 base model in PDK. no boy racer wings.... just as fast as a 997.1s model,newest car of all selections.




or the turbo with all the miles in Manual. yes, you don't seem keen on the wings, but its a turbo.


Smoker vehicles: new charcoal cabin filter, and a complete interior pull and clean and you 'might' not be able to tell its been smoked in. id pass for sure.


p.s. im into sportbikes as well... 1k r.r. here. I feel perfectly fine in my 997.1 4s for power... it just needs to be kept up in the 5k range in the power band, unlike the on demand power of the turbo across the board. and hell yes youre making better times on your 600 than a pig like busa! Haha. they are fun to open up in the straight aways though...

 

I've had a R1 as well and many fast cars... I still own a 320hp snowmobile... the 3.8na motor feels very much in control at all time and its fast. Turbo is lightning fast but 4wd and heavier. Best is to drive them. I don't like automatic cars so would cut a few off list even with pdk

 

I d probably go 09. Newest, probably least expensive to maintain at this point. Lowest KM. All around nice driver.

 

The '09 C4 is the smart choice. It will feel the newest, and with PDK you get track performance, twisty fun, and commuter convenience. It is the definite choice over the 997.1S. HOWEVER, smart choice is not necessarily the right one... I can totally see going for the turbo manual, if you think you can fix the smoke problem and the PPI turns out perfect. But those are big "if's." It is more of a "special" car. I have same brown color too... it is really great fit for the turbo - I especially like that understated look on a beast of a car.

Note you said "(it's also a narrow body)" in the '09 C4 section. I assume you are referring to the C4? But C4's are all widebody, same as Turbo.

 

This.

 

2006-2008 997.1 IMS bearings are not really that big of an issue. In 2006 they started using a much larger, thicker and stronger "single row" Ims bearing.. IMS bearing issues were more prevalent when they started using a thinner single row IMS bearing starting with the electronic throttle body engines from model years 2000-2005. Even the 1997-1999 986/996 throttle by cable engines used a double row IMS bearing design that was much more robust then the later ones and has hardly had issues compared to the single row bearings of 2000-2005.

With that said... Go with the newest, best optioned and least mileage model you can afford. The wide bodies are my favorites so a C4, C4S, or Turbo would be a great choice. best of luck on your decision

 

Great tips. Thx.

You're right I should go for a test drive, I just found that it's not very easy to arrange around here for high performance cars. Perhaps I should consider sending a proof of age and/or salary slip attached to the request for test drive)

So far I've considered the C4 one of the heaviest (4wd) and one of the least powerful (non-S) of the Porsche family, so probably THE pragmatic if not the most spirited choice. I'm a bit worried that it would be almost too practical to be enjoyable, although it is certainly not an SUV Yet I agree that it is the 'smart' choice of the lot.

p.s. you're right of.coz the narrow body reference was for another car which I eliminated/deleted at the last minute before posting. Thanks!

Thanks- looks like I'm learing sthng new every day. Do you know if the 2006 models already benefit from the "single row" IMS bearing, or is it safer to go for 2007 onwards? (perhaps a VIN clue?)

 

from what I have heard... all the 2006-2008 C4-C4S have the super single row ims bearing upgrade.. The big question is when exactly did the 05-06 C2S switch to the super bearing. Most people go by the date of manufacturing on the door of the car. If is says 2006 or newer, then you are golden.. The grey area is when in 2005 did they switch at the manufacturing plant. Because some 2006 C2S were built earlier in 2005 as a model yr 2006.. hope that makes sense. So if I were looking at a 997.1 C2S, I would make sure that the manufacturing date was 2006 or newer

btw... yes, your feelings about a base model C4 are the same as mine. Heaviest of the bunch with the smaller engine. If you go AWD then go with the 3.8 engines or a turbo

 

Lol. Certainly not an SUV indeed.

C4 is a great car. The extra grip through the corners should negate the extra weight difference on the track. And you can drive in all weather with confidence (and the right tire set). The 997.2 base is pretty equivalent to a 997.1S power wise, unless a 997.2S is an option? From my experience though, even the 997.2 base vs S difference is not so much as you might think. Barely noticeable in fact. There are other threads on this you may want to check out. But bottom line though is you definitely should do some test drives and form your own opinion.

 

i had 997.1 C2S, spend a good amount of time on my uncle 991S, but the best car still 997.1TT manual. Interior of both 997.1 and 997.2 is the same except the newer PCM, but still out dated compare to my iPhone. Exterior 997TT is the best and prolly the last true analog engine with bullet proof manual tranny. Although 08 997TT manual has the most mileage but rare color and manual would be my first choice but I would pass if the car smell like an ashtray. I would pick
2006 997TT Tip if PPI check out
2009 997.2 C4
2008 997TT MT if PPI & DME check out and fix the smoke issue
2007 C2S bigger brake, PASM is useful on track.

 

Thanks!

Great advice, thanks. I also realised that a lot of pple seem to prefer the C4 over the C2S. Is it because it is newer/single owner (which I appreciate) or sthng else? Intuitively & generally speaking (without specific reference to the above cars) in an apple for apple comparison, I'd probably choose C2S over a C4 simply because of the weight/RWD fun factor. The 4wd turbo is a different story altogether. That sort of power can offset a lot of fat and silly wings The C4 might be practical in the snow, but I always wear winter tires and in my area (and the nearby Swiss Alps) snowploughs are regular. In case of a fresh snow, a bit of RWD fun is always welcome on ski trips!

Or have I missed another reason why pple would tend to gravitate towards the heavier C4?

 

the 4 vs. 2 debate .... in the end, I think most would say buy what suits you and your driving style/environment the best.


I would winter drive a 2wd carerra ... no problem. I happen to like the AWD cars body a bit more and I also like AWD cars. so it was simple choice for me. if driven properly, the awd models can be stepped out in the rear some too.


Seems like you need to spend a weekend and test 2 or 3 of those candidates.

 

All these cars are not equal in performance and price, if you can afford a turbo why not wait for the right example? I wouldn't go back to any 997 Carerra since I bought my Turbo. The only exception is 997.2GT3.
If money is an issue, I rather buy the 997.1 C2S and don't worrry about IMS.