Hello everyone:

I'm headed to the dealer tomorrow to begin negotiations on an '06 C4S coupe - this car is one of the launch cars (PAG code 762). It's black over sand beige (unfortunately not the black/sand beige two tone interior which looks SPECTACULAR IMHO...).

Here's the options list:

A1 - Black exterior
TG - Sand Beige Full Leather
XLF - Sport Exhaust System (!)
482 - TPMS
342 - Heated Front Seats
267 - Self Dimming Mirrors
P15 - Power Seat Package
670 - Navigation for PCM
680 - Bose System
640 - Sport Chrono Plus
XSC - Porsche Crest in Headrest
M6A - Black Mats - Porsche lettering
692 - Remote CD Changer

The dealer rep has informed me that his sales manager is ready to deal aggressively on this car. That made more sense to me than waiting until summer for the delivery of a special order vehicle, and I'm sure that I'll get a better deal on an "on-ground" car vs. a special order... and while it's not everything I wanted, it's a totally beautiful vehicle that I can be very happy with...

That being said: I spent a couple of hours on www.porschedealer.com last Sunday night. I checked every US dealer's inventory (except for the two who don't have websites <g>) - and I'm shocked at what I've found...

As of Sunday 01-09-06, there were 64 PAG Code 762 C4S Coupes on the ground in the US. Sixty four cars! Excellence Mag stated that one of these cars (and one silver/black C4 coupe) were built for each US reseller... dunno if they had the option to take one or leave it, but several resellers have more than one (Porsche Exchange in IL has 3, Park Place in Dallas has 2, "The Collection" in Coral Gables FL has 4!).

So, gang - what the H#ll is up with the C4S coupe? I've heard several things:

1.) Since the 997 C4 / C4S is not a full "turbo-look" car, buyers aren't that excited about it
2.) The C2 / C2S is _so_ good that most people are reluctant to spend the extra $$$ on a "4".

It seems that this can only be good for me, right? January in the Midwest is not a popular 911 sales period...

Question #1 of 2: What is this car worth, in your opinion(s)?

BTW - I'm willing to walk if they don't meet my needs. I have promised this dealership first shot at selling me the car, and they will be doing all of my service regardless of where I buy it. I'm looking for the absolute lowest price. My CFO (otherwise known as my spouse) needs to see an excellent deal - or this deal isn't going to happen.

Question #2 of 2: any idea on holdbacks (if any) on these cars? PCNA is pretty tight with that data, as you might imagine... I can't find anything re:dealer incentives on the web.

Any input from the board members would be much appreciated.

BTW - I have posted a very similar message on Renntech also; I felt that I'd have a much better chance of a timely response here...

Thanks in advance,

-don

 

Use 15% to figure invoice, and go from there.

What are they showing as list? Is it the ones at $102,080?

If so, figure $83,700 cost (retail less 18%) at BEST case. Might be $86,700 at the 15% number, but I don't know for sure. Offer $83k and see what they say (but let them toss the number out first!).

When the Anniv 911 appeared, and they were all screaming for MSRP, it wasn't long before the shoe dropped and there was inventory. Shortly thereafter, all of them were being sold at invoice.

There really isn't holdback like with some other brands.

Dealers get their profit numbers when they sell the car (a good portion of the profit), and the balance when they get their CSI scores (the survey).

So....if they get 13% of so at the sale (13% net profit), then another 2-4 points with the survey, that ought to tell you where you can eat their lunch.

I'd start at invoice, maybe even below, because they may get some sort of incentive (non monetary, but more allocation, perhaps) if they move these cars out.

Just my two (per)cents.

 

Eric - thanks for your reply! I have an invoice # of $88,936 on an MSRP of 102,080 - that's from Edmunds, fully configured with all options plus destination.

I'm assuming that they pay less than invoice for the car; regardless, I wonder what it costs to floor plan a 911 for a couple of months... it can't be free.

-d

 

every single dealership i've talked recently have those in stock & tried very hard to move it. i was asking if they have any C2S the answer was always ''No sir but we do have many Launch edition C4S we're willing to deal.'' they started 5k off with me too bad i had 0 interest...

 

The Edmunds numbers reflect the 'primary' profit I refer to (13%) but NOT the total profit available to the dealer at list price.

I still say 83 is ballpark 'eating their lunch' but it might be a buck or two higher.

 

Eric - thanks a million! Now I get it.

I'll let you know how I do.

-d

 

What's your perspective on what the dealer would play with when it comes to a customer ordered car, rather than one already built or on the floor?

I'm about to pull the trigger on an order and have the spec decided, so knowing what my wiggle room might be would be very helpful.

MTIA

 

Hi Chef -

The guys at MW have said 2-3% max on a customer ordered car; but now that I have this data, I'd say that you could get 5-7% before it's done... just my guess.

Exchange in Highland Park seems to be the Big Dog in Chicago, simply using inventory as a basis. I haven't shopped there so I can't say - but if MW won't meet my price, I'll check them out.

Good luck!

 

Exchange is where I've bought my last two from but they've played better poker in the past. This time I want to make sure I've got a good hand before throwing in my cards.

 

Maybe because the car is a joke at that price......

.What a rip off...if you dont drive it in the snow who the hell needs all wheel drive....the wider rear looks dumb unless you drop it and put 20's on to fill it up........

Porsche and their high price marketing crap willl get hurt sooner than later

 

Hey RSS -

I agree, the 997 C4S is not Porsche's best marketing move... a widebody without turbo-look? Whatever... it'll be good for those of us who want or need AWD and a new 997 at a 'used' price.

I found a 993 C4S with 1,301 certified miles for 78k - but why do that when I can get new with a warranty for just a bit more?

Remember, you live in San Diego and yes, I _will_ drive this car in the ice and snow - either that, or I let it set for half of the year. I don't want to do that.

If I was hangin' in sunny SoCal with you, I would have a RWD car without a doubt.

Speaking of dumb markting (and US bumper height regulations) - if Porsche would offer the Euro steel sport suspension at -20mm on the US C4S, there would be no wheelwell issues...

Your car looks great,

-don

 

I like MW a lot, but they are multi-make and I can't say how many Porsches they move - so I don't know how they fit into Porsche's dealer tiering. I would imagine that Exchange pays less for an equivalent car, but if they aren't passing it on to you, screw 'em.

Regardless, MW == good folks and solid service department, at the least.

Sounds crazy, but have you tried Fox Valley in Appleton, WI? If this plan doesn't work, I'm headed up there...

-d

 

dstrimbu,
how did it go? im in the midst of a deal on a 997 S right now, but if dealers are more aggressive on the 4S cpe. maybe i'll go for the AWD!

 

It did not go well, my friend - at least it was fast.

We could not come close on price; they offered 5k off and stood firm.

They said that the market will come to them in 30-45 days.

You're in a different market - SoCal - and my dealer said so; he told me to compare any Midwestern dealers and come back to him with my best price - excluding Cali and Florida.

This is not over - it's just beginning. I'll keep you posted!

-don

 

Awesome....Gotta love a dealer that screws around like that. They have a serious buyer in front of them (You) but they would rather let it sit there in hopes of maybe making another G or 2.

I hope it is still sitting there.