Cermaic brakes...and...LSD...
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Cermaic brakes...and...LSD...
Does 997 TT need those things...must have
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
Thanks
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
Thanks
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[quote=GT RUS;2071927]Does 997 TT need those things...must have
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
For the cost, the $1K for the LSD is worth the money. With the front wheel drive plus rear wheel dr, perhaps it doesn't have the absolute benefit of just rear wheel. but for the $1K there is nothing but benefit.
With ceramics, that is a different animal. A porsche with steel will stop in the same distance as a prosche with ceramic. There are lots of published reports showing this, plus 4 dealers told me the same thing. According to these dealers, one in Atlanta, you get ceramics only when you are to use the car extensively on the track. Under excessive use on the track, the ceramics adjust to the heat better. For a daily driver, however, (a) there is +$8K up front. (b)If a disk fractures by a stone or mishap when changing a tire, cost is mere $5K/ disk. (c) Before the ceramics heat up, they are reported to not brake as well as when heated a bit. (d) Some report when wet, the ceramics don;t seem to stop as well. (e)When you sell the porsche, most tell me, the ceramic system is a negative feature. (f) Many owners including the dealers say ceramics grind a bit when applied, a feature universally absent with steel brakes. (g) And (a +), the ceramic disks last for 150K miles, a feature I could care less about....I don't keep the car for that many miles anyway. And fiinally (h) , porsche refused warranty issues with the first round of ceramic brakes, but because of this history, I would not feel secure if porsche would not give issue to any faults with ceramic brakes.....the disks are just too sensitive to fracture.
I still feel I would get the $8K ceramics if the stopping power was shorter than steel, but it is not. If fact I have found two cases reported where the ceramics took longer to stop, and the mag writers blamed the situation on taking more time for the ceramics to reach optimum operating temperature over the time it took steels to reach their operating temperature.
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
For the cost, the $1K for the LSD is worth the money. With the front wheel drive plus rear wheel dr, perhaps it doesn't have the absolute benefit of just rear wheel. but for the $1K there is nothing but benefit.
With ceramics, that is a different animal. A porsche with steel will stop in the same distance as a prosche with ceramic. There are lots of published reports showing this, plus 4 dealers told me the same thing. According to these dealers, one in Atlanta, you get ceramics only when you are to use the car extensively on the track. Under excessive use on the track, the ceramics adjust to the heat better. For a daily driver, however, (a) there is +$8K up front. (b)If a disk fractures by a stone or mishap when changing a tire, cost is mere $5K/ disk. (c) Before the ceramics heat up, they are reported to not brake as well as when heated a bit. (d) Some report when wet, the ceramics don;t seem to stop as well. (e)When you sell the porsche, most tell me, the ceramic system is a negative feature. (f) Many owners including the dealers say ceramics grind a bit when applied, a feature universally absent with steel brakes. (g) And (a +), the ceramic disks last for 150K miles, a feature I could care less about....I don't keep the car for that many miles anyway. And fiinally (h) , porsche refused warranty issues with the first round of ceramic brakes, but because of this history, I would not feel secure if porsche would not give issue to any faults with ceramic brakes.....the disks are just too sensitive to fracture.
I still feel I would get the $8K ceramics if the stopping power was shorter than steel, but it is not. If fact I have found two cases reported where the ceramics took longer to stop, and the mag writers blamed the situation on taking more time for the ceramics to reach optimum operating temperature over the time it took steels to reach their operating temperature.
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Wow....thanks for all the details !!!...
This clears most of the Qs reagding brakes for ME...but I still want more opinions...
As for LSD...I am not talijg about money...am talking about car with LSD and without it...any diff in performance ???
This clears most of the Qs reagding brakes for ME...but I still want more opinions...
As for LSD...I am not talijg about money...am talking about car with LSD and without it...any diff in performance ???
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So does this mean you are getting a manual transmission'ed car now?
At a cost of about $1000, the LSD is a nice feature to get. The ceramic disks are in their second generation (from the 996) and are much much better than before. Increased durability and longevity are really the best features compared to the previous generation disks. If you consider what aftermarket ceramic disks cost (only Brembo makes them) or what ceramics cost for the Gallardo or F430, $8K US dollars is pretty inexpensive.
Do MOST people notice a big difference with ceramics? Probably not. But if you do any kind of high speed stop and go, you may find the steel rotors have some fade at higher temperatures.
At a cost of about $1000, the LSD is a nice feature to get. The ceramic disks are in their second generation (from the 996) and are much much better than before. Increased durability and longevity are really the best features compared to the previous generation disks. If you consider what aftermarket ceramic disks cost (only Brembo makes them) or what ceramics cost for the Gallardo or F430, $8K US dollars is pretty inexpensive.
Do MOST people notice a big difference with ceramics? Probably not. But if you do any kind of high speed stop and go, you may find the steel rotors have some fade at higher temperatures.
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If there is some slippage of tires which obviously has to be less with LSD, then performance is increased. With slippage, the car goes nowhere, it just sits there burning rubber.
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I have LSD and ceramics on my 2008 997TT and would not be without either. My ceramics are my favorite option on the car and I don't agree with the comments above. I had steel and big reds on my two prior porsches and test drove both extensively before making the plunge. I am so glad I did - they are amazing. They work remarkable at all times - cold or hot, wet or dry (although when very wet, there is a slight difference which you adapt to - I live in Seattle with lots of rain). I was told they hold their value better than any other option you can add to a turbo. I love my ceramics and would not be without them again.
I would never own a car of this quality and performance again without ceramics. I believe the breaking experience is different then the reds. It is hard to describe but the words that come to mind is solid, secure, balanced and more responsive than my 2005 C2S not to mention that they spoil you after not having to deal with brake dust. I know a lot of this feel has to do with the diameter of the rotors but that is my reference point. I have driven Lambo's and AM's without ceramics with similar size rotors and the braking experience was average compared to my TT. If you can afford it go for it. It will be a differentiator on your turbo both on the street and when you resell.
Regards
Peter
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Peter
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Getting ceramics depends on your driving style, if you are on the street on street tires, ceramics are overkill. The steel brakes are more than adequate to #1 Stop you and #2 Overpower your tires (remember your stopping ability is ony as good as your tires first).
For the guy that puts only a few thousand miles on the car and doesnt drive it hard, ceramics are non advantageous over steels other than the weight. If you track, or drive and brake very hard for long periods of time, then the ceramics "may" be better, but still not worth the money.
For the guy that puts only a few thousand miles on the car and doesnt drive it hard, ceramics are non advantageous over steels other than the weight. If you track, or drive and brake very hard for long periods of time, then the ceramics "may" be better, but still not worth the money.
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LSD is a great option to have! No idea what specs the OEM has (perhaps only 20%) so getting a one with 40% or so could be better than OEM...
PCCB helps reducing the unsprung weight but the braking perfromance itself is unchanged compared to normal brakes. There is no difference with stopping distances etc. because it is the tires that can't bite the track enough, not the brakes. Still the PCCB is a nice option to have due to weight savings...
What ever brakes you get get some good racing pads, because they will change the experience
PCCB helps reducing the unsprung weight but the braking perfromance itself is unchanged compared to normal brakes. There is no difference with stopping distances etc. because it is the tires that can't bite the track enough, not the brakes. Still the PCCB is a nice option to have due to weight savings...
What ever brakes you get get some good racing pads, because they will change the experience
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I think we all agree on the LSD option, so that's a mute topic.<O:p</O:p
I don’t want this post to turn into an argument, however, I feel the comments of the first reply are quite dated. Why bring up first generation ceramic that are not available anymore and not the fact these issues have been corrected? How does 2 examples of ceramics taking longer stand up against hundreds of examples of superior braking in every generation? Grinding on ceramic is new to me, maybe he meant squealing, which would be true, fortunately for me I have not had any issues with that.<O:p</O:p
As for the re-sale, ceramics hold their value very well when compared to the total price of the car. All new cars have a, jokingly, 40 foot depreciation value - meaning - 40 feet off the lot the car depreciates considerably. This depreciation is on the entire car and every option equally. Therefore, any argument the ceramics ADD to the depreciated value of a used car are ridiculous and short-sided.<O:p</O:p
Warranty issues are easy to cover and done with regularity. Regardless of what option you add to a vehicle, a circumstance is bound to arise that it will not be covered under warranty or can’t be an insurance claim. Anyone who had not considered that fact when ordering has no business complaining about the cost of the repair after the fact.<O:p</O:p
One thing that can't be ignored and I’m sure we’re all in agreement on is the cost - no matter who you are, they are not cheap. As for wet weather driving, I can not see a difference, then again, I’m not at limit in the wet, yet in fairness to comparison, it has been mentioned enough that it should not be dismissed. Then again splashing through a puddle has warped many a metal rotor, something that can’t be said for ceramic. Again in fairness, as much as I’m for the ceramics, I don’t think I’d anyone’s going to see 150 K AND use their sled as designed.<O:p</O:p
I too test drove both versions extensively and found the ceramics to be the better of the two. Braking control is far more responsive. The low weight factor of rotational mass improves handling and you feel it immediately when comparing side by side. One thing that can’t be ignored is brake-fade. Metal rotors/pads fade quickly, but with virtually little to no brake fade it is the absolute safest option available. <V:p</V:pThat makes is worth every penny to me. The added bonus of virtually no brake dust is a bonus I thoroughly enjoy! If you’re as **** as I am about keeping the car clean, this is worth sooooo much in controlling my OCD on not having dirty wheels.<O:p</O:p
Well, there’s my two-and-a-half-cents, OK, maybe eight grand worth, but you should experience them both and decide for yourself. Let us know if you went with metal and your reasons why. Looking forward to your response. When are you going to order this sled you’re doing so much research on?<O:p</O:p
I don’t want this post to turn into an argument, however, I feel the comments of the first reply are quite dated. Why bring up first generation ceramic that are not available anymore and not the fact these issues have been corrected? How does 2 examples of ceramics taking longer stand up against hundreds of examples of superior braking in every generation? Grinding on ceramic is new to me, maybe he meant squealing, which would be true, fortunately for me I have not had any issues with that.<O:p</O:p
As for the re-sale, ceramics hold their value very well when compared to the total price of the car. All new cars have a, jokingly, 40 foot depreciation value - meaning - 40 feet off the lot the car depreciates considerably. This depreciation is on the entire car and every option equally. Therefore, any argument the ceramics ADD to the depreciated value of a used car are ridiculous and short-sided.<O:p</O:p
Warranty issues are easy to cover and done with regularity. Regardless of what option you add to a vehicle, a circumstance is bound to arise that it will not be covered under warranty or can’t be an insurance claim. Anyone who had not considered that fact when ordering has no business complaining about the cost of the repair after the fact.<O:p</O:p
One thing that can't be ignored and I’m sure we’re all in agreement on is the cost - no matter who you are, they are not cheap. As for wet weather driving, I can not see a difference, then again, I’m not at limit in the wet, yet in fairness to comparison, it has been mentioned enough that it should not be dismissed. Then again splashing through a puddle has warped many a metal rotor, something that can’t be said for ceramic. Again in fairness, as much as I’m for the ceramics, I don’t think I’d anyone’s going to see 150 K AND use their sled as designed.<O:p</O:p
I too test drove both versions extensively and found the ceramics to be the better of the two. Braking control is far more responsive. The low weight factor of rotational mass improves handling and you feel it immediately when comparing side by side. One thing that can’t be ignored is brake-fade. Metal rotors/pads fade quickly, but with virtually little to no brake fade it is the absolute safest option available. <V:p</V:pThat makes is worth every penny to me. The added bonus of virtually no brake dust is a bonus I thoroughly enjoy! If you’re as **** as I am about keeping the car clean, this is worth sooooo much in controlling my OCD on not having dirty wheels.<O:p</O:p
Well, there’s my two-and-a-half-cents, OK, maybe eight grand worth, but you should experience them both and decide for yourself. Let us know if you went with metal and your reasons why. Looking forward to your response. When are you going to order this sled you’re doing so much research on?<O:p</O:p
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[quote=johnww;2072024]
Thank you for your informative explanation.
Does 997 TT need those things...must have
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
For the cost, the $1K for the LSD is worth the money. With the front wheel drive plus rear wheel dr, perhaps it doesn't have the absolute benefit of just rear wheel. but for the $1K there is nothing but benefit.
With ceramics, that is a different animal. A porsche with steel will stop in the same distance as a prosche with ceramic. There are lots of published reports showing this, plus 4 dealers told me the same thing. According to these dealers, one in Atlanta, you get ceramics only when you are to use the car extensively on the track. Under excessive use on the track, the ceramics adjust to the heat better. For a daily driver, however, (a) there is +$8K up front. (b)If a disk fractures by a stone or mishap when changing a tire, cost is mere $5K/ disk. (c) Before the ceramics heat up, they are reported to not brake as well as when heated a bit. (d) Some report when wet, the ceramics don;t seem to stop as well. (e)When you sell the porsche, most tell me, the ceramic system is a negative feature. (f) Many owners including the dealers say ceramics grind a bit when applied, a feature universally absent with steel brakes. (g) And (a +), the ceramic disks last for 150K miles, a feature I could care less about....I don't keep the car for that many miles anyway. And fiinally (h) , porsche refused warranty issues with the first round of ceramic brakes, but because of this history, I would not feel secure if porsche would not give issue to any faults with ceramic brakes.....the disks are just too sensitive to fracture.
I still feel I would get the $8K ceramics if the stopping power was shorter than steel, but it is not. If fact I have found two cases reported where the ceramics took longer to stop, and the mag writers blamed the situation on taking more time for the ceramics to reach optimum operating temperature over the time it took steels to reach their operating temperature.
Some people here change ceramic to regular brakes others go opposite way...
What are good and bad things about ceramic brakes and should I get a car with Ceramic brakes or not ???
Same thing about LSD... Does 997 TT really need at LSD even if you take it too track...can you feel the diff, does it helps ???
For the cost, the $1K for the LSD is worth the money. With the front wheel drive plus rear wheel dr, perhaps it doesn't have the absolute benefit of just rear wheel. but for the $1K there is nothing but benefit.
With ceramics, that is a different animal. A porsche with steel will stop in the same distance as a prosche with ceramic. There are lots of published reports showing this, plus 4 dealers told me the same thing. According to these dealers, one in Atlanta, you get ceramics only when you are to use the car extensively on the track. Under excessive use on the track, the ceramics adjust to the heat better. For a daily driver, however, (a) there is +$8K up front. (b)If a disk fractures by a stone or mishap when changing a tire, cost is mere $5K/ disk. (c) Before the ceramics heat up, they are reported to not brake as well as when heated a bit. (d) Some report when wet, the ceramics don;t seem to stop as well. (e)When you sell the porsche, most tell me, the ceramic system is a negative feature. (f) Many owners including the dealers say ceramics grind a bit when applied, a feature universally absent with steel brakes. (g) And (a +), the ceramic disks last for 150K miles, a feature I could care less about....I don't keep the car for that many miles anyway. And fiinally (h) , porsche refused warranty issues with the first round of ceramic brakes, but because of this history, I would not feel secure if porsche would not give issue to any faults with ceramic brakes.....the disks are just too sensitive to fracture.
I still feel I would get the $8K ceramics if the stopping power was shorter than steel, but it is not. If fact I have found two cases reported where the ceramics took longer to stop, and the mag writers blamed the situation on taking more time for the ceramics to reach optimum operating temperature over the time it took steels to reach their operating temperature.
Thank you for your informative explanation.
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Thanks for all answers guys...Yes I am going to get manual but I am not getting new car...
The things is that I have found car with LSD but without ceramics and opposite with Ceramics but without LSD...without ceramic the car is cheaper...
I dont know wehat to get car with ceramnics and try to add LSD or car with LSD and buy someones ceramics on the board some people been selling them for like 4-5k...
The things is that I have found car with LSD but without ceramics and opposite with Ceramics but without LSD...without ceramic the car is cheaper...
I dont know wehat to get car with ceramnics and try to add LSD or car with LSD and buy someones ceramics on the board some people been selling them for like 4-5k...
Last edited by GT RUS; Oct 6, 2008 at 01:53 AM.
There are many beautiful women out there in all shaped and sizes. But, big ***** always win. Same with brakes (there ceramic and larger) 
.
Look at it this way...They are way cheaper now than upgrading later and you get more resale back later.
Jokes aside in my opinion the diff. can be felt while pushing the car. As far as the brakes drive a 997TT with both brakes. One is good and one will put you through the windshield!
.Look at it this way...They are way cheaper now than upgrading later and you get more resale back later.
Jokes aside in my opinion the diff. can be felt while pushing the car. As far as the brakes drive a 997TT with both brakes. One is good and one will put you through the windshield!