Search the forum; many times. How much Torque can the stock 6 speed manual take? Just did a EVT580 upgrade and now feel that the clutch is slipping at Mid to Higher RPMs. Is this too much torque and force for the stock tranny? Car seems better when not in sport mode. I have read that the stock Clutch is rated at no more than 600HP or 600WHP. This statement makes no sense to me though.

Thanks for all your help.,

Elite1

 

I have read about folks having issues with a tune and exhaust. Probably case by case but I would guess you are over the threshold for your clutch.

 

I believe this also, I have upgraded the exhaust to a EP2, BMC air filter and also after both the Evoms580evt ECU upgrade (cooler spark plugs and ECU alteration.) Good news is that the car is producing some amazing power but, It wont hold to the road.

 

Any decent AM tune will push the stock clutch to the limit. So about 80+ flywheel horsepower.

 

My stock clutch died within 6 months of the Protomotive flash and Europipe exhaust. I don't drive it daily either.

 

First of all let me quickly grab a big bag of popcorn and a regular coke (hate zero/diet) 'coz it's going to get interested

For example, from what I have gathered over on the forums, Champion Porsche/GIAC tune combo, neither recommends up grading the plugs not do they recommend up grading the clutch not to mention several people have the tune and are still on the stock clutch.

How many miles do you have as that could play a big role in the demise of a stock clutch too?

 

Hi Quick,

Car has around 50,000 miles on it. Clutch was functioning fine prior to the upgrade. I am not sure if the clutch was previously replaced.

 

From the "Well-Worn Path" department: Fix no. 1: Sachs 999 series -764 pressure plate, often referred to as the "stage 2.5" clutch. A.W.E. is the most popular source, and they've got an A+ trustworthiness/knowledge rating. Fix no. 2, newer and more expensive, is the highly regarded ERP triple-plate carbon/carbon clutch, available from, among others, Champion Motorsport, another A+ company. Both AWE and Champion are sponsers here, both have a reputation for helpfulness and straight dealing. In your present state of tune, the 2.5 will probably do fine, until such time as the inevitable power addiction you already have makes still more unreasonable demands on your once-stable life. My sympathies to you and your family, and enjoy the ride.

 

How many miles did your car have? Do you have the EP2 or EP1?

 

Thanks, I like the last part.

 

PS. elite1 is, I believe, correct about the plug range change. Colder really isn't in your cards (yet).

PPS. I've no affiliation with AWE or Champion Motorsport. Ask around, and I think you'll get similar feedback about those two (and several others here on 6). Best.

 

Hey thanks for all the kind words guys!

Here's my .02¢. Your decision here should be based on your long term goal for the car....or in another words, how much power you'd eventually like to have. In my experience, as soon as you crest the 500whp territory (you're getting close with your mods), your stock clutch is going to be prone to early failure. It might not disintegrate instantly...but it's life is going to be seriously reduced!

There's basically two concrete proven clutch options in my book. And between the two of them they cover just about any power needs you could possibly have. First is the Sachs 999 with the 764 pressure plate or what most people call the "stage 2" (even though there's really no "stage" for it..lol). This clutch will hold good up to about about 650 lb/ft of torque to the wheels which we've proven on our old 997.1 shop development car. It's also got GREAT drivability, more or less feels like stock. Affordable too...around $1600-$1700 for the setup (without flywheel).

The second clutch is our Champion/ERP triple disk carbon clutch. This is the big daddy bad boy of clutches for the 996 and 997 Turbo cars. Good for about 1100 lb/ft or tq to the wheels, and not terrible drivability (although it's a much heavier pedal and tricky engagement). A couple of things I'd recommend if you go this route. DO NOT go with the lightweight flywheel option unless you want to stall every couple times you try to start driving because the engagement is SO tough. And secondly, definitely do a GT2 master/slave conversion to help the pedal feel out. We use EVOMS's kit and haven't had any issues. This option is more expensive of course, typically around $4k for the complete setup (which does include the flywheel in this case).

Hope this helps.

 

What's the life expectancy of the Sachs 2.5 Clutch? Given that its not tracked. Just street driving?

 

That's a tough question to answer. Think of it this way....what's the life expectancy of a stock clutch on a completely stock car? That time can vary a lot depending on driving conditions, driving style, and how many times you try to teach someone to drive stick in your car lol.

Same thing applies to the Sachs clutch. It's guaranteed to hold at a higher power level but unfortunately those other variable can't be factored in.

To give some real life examples. I have one customer right now that's probably going on 25k+ miles on the Sachs clutch with our 65mm VTG power kit which puts down 600 at the wheels in his car. I also have another customer who blew through the Sachs clutch in about 5k miles after swearing that his stock clutch "wasn't good enough".

 

Thanks for the info Tom. When you are speaking about drivability are you referring to the lengthof the friction point of the clutch or the firmness of the clutch, or both?