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"Used" DBS Up For Sale

 
  #16  
Old 08-30-2008, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
We all know DuPont is like Barrett-Jackson. I agree with you totally on the attitude of almost all Ferrari dealers and a lot of owners. It's a credit to the product that they have this following and they are the envy of most manufacturer's, if not all. Many people get turned off by the whole process around trying to buy a "new" Ferrari. Aston needs to be realistic about it's products and pricing, the same way everyone except Ferrari does. In the short-term and maybe forever, no one else is going to be able to do what Ferrari does. There's not much A-M can do to limit the depreciation of it's vehicles except to offer the best product they can at a price that doesn't "gouge" the first-time buyer. Pricing products like the Rapide in the 250+ area will do almost nothing for the company b/c they'll move so few. Many buyers, even those with a lot of funds behind them are value shoppers. Make a great product at a good price and you'll move the units. Don't overprice yourself tying to compete with somebody else who is out of your league. No matter what anyone says, Ferrari is out of everyone's league (I'm not endorsing the product as best, just buyer's attitudes), and whether or not that's rational is anybody's guess.
I don't think it's possible for me to agree with you more. Well said.
 
  #17  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:50 PM
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Would have had a Ferrari years ago. Had the opportunity to buy a new, untitled challenge stradale for a very modest premium. The dealer insisted that I buy at least 2 used cars from them first. I walked to Porsche and bought a new 05 GT3 and an 05 Turbo S cabriolet instead, both new, untitled, and discounted.
 
  #18  
Old 08-31-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by X50DAN View Post
MSRP on these initial cars is $268k; there aren't any options. 'Think this is a "flipper" trying to make a buck.
Agreed...Dan, when are you expecting yours? I still want a ride in it when you take delivery!!
 
  #19  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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The first articles I read about the Vantage pegged its price somewhere near that of a Carrera S. If they would have delivered it in that range instead of 20% higher they would probably sold a ton of them.
 
  #20  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by stearnsn View Post
The first articles I read about the Vantage pegged its price somewhere near that of a Carrera S. If they would have delivered it in that range instead of 20% higher they would probably sold a ton of them.
They don't want to sell as many cars as Porsche. (Although in their current situation they might wish they had). When you produce 100,000 cars a year it dilutes the brand because they are EVERYWHERE.
 
  #21  
Old 09-10-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Moogle View Post
They don't want to sell as many cars as Porsche. (Although in their current situation they might wish they had). When you produce 100,000 cars a year it dilutes the brand because they are EVERYWHERE.
True, but not true. So many manufacturers or "special editions" within a brand put on false airs about "limited production" & etc., when in reality they want to sell as many as they can. So many car companies get into trouble b/c of lack of volume, and Aston is one of them. A-M makes beautiful cars, but they are overpriced and their heavy & early depreciation shows it. They are trying to be Ferrari when in reality they should be more LIKE Porsche.
 
  #22  
Old 09-10-2008, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
True, but not true. So many manufacturers or "special editions" within a brand put on false airs about "limited production" & etc., when in reality they want to sell as many as they can. So many car companies get into trouble b/c of lack of volume, and Aston is one of them. A-M makes beautiful cars, but they are overpriced and their heavy & early depreciation shows it. They are trying to be Ferrari when in reality they should be more LIKE Porsche.
Funny, I always viewed Aston Martin as an entity unlike others. I think that reliability has been a cause of depreciation in the past as well as a lack of brand visibility. I think with their independence and a possible partnership with MB, you'll see them develop a number of cars that keep them in better performance comparrison to the faster cars in their class. As far as being overpriced, you can buy the entry car for $125K. That's almost $100K less than a Ferrari and closer to a Porsche than you think once you start to add options. I think for alot of people, establishing value is often done in dollar/HP or 0-60 times. No car would compare to a ZR1 or a GT-R if looks, style and finish weren't factors. I actually think that the Vantage is having the same affect of rebirth on AM as the Boxster did with Porsche in the 90's. You see that car used in commercials and videos. The mainstreaming will bring about new demand. Hopefully, AM will retain the individuality that has kept them from being like anyone.
 
  #23  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:15 AM
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I agree with you jaymoney, that is why paid the freight to own one. It just seems that the resale market (and sluggish new market) thinks they should be priced closer to the Porsche.

Since the nearest dealer is a couple hundred miles away, I almost never see AM's here and I like that too.
 
  #24  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jaymoney View Post
Funny, I always viewed Aston Martin as an entity unlike others. I think that reliability has been a cause of depreciation in the past as well as a lack of brand visibility. I think with their independence and a possible partnership with MB, you'll see them develop a number of cars that keep them in better performance comparrison to the faster cars in their class. As far as being overpriced, you can buy the entry car for $125K. That's almost $100K less than a Ferrari and closer to a Porsche than you think once you start to add options. I think for alot of people, establishing value is often done in dollar/HP or 0-60 times. No car would compare to a ZR1 or a GT-R if looks, style and finish weren't factors. I actually think that the Vantage is having the same affect of rebirth on AM as the Boxster did with Porsche in the 90's. You see that car used in commercials and videos. The mainstreaming will bring about new demand. Hopefully, AM will retain the individuality that has kept them from being like anyone.
125K + options isn't "entry-level" no matter what. I think a lot of Vantage buyers are "stretch" buyers of SLs, regular Porsches and Jags. A-Ms are beautiful cars and have a devoted following no doubt. They will NEVER suceed trying to go upmarket, only down. The Vantage added volume, but it didn't draw much attention to the brand. Most Vantage buyers likely won't be buying new DB9. Making a 200K + sedan, beautiful as it might be, won't help either. I don't know the answer really, because maybe these cars cost this much to make and sell. I tell you what though, if new Vantages were starting at 85 and DB9s were at 125, it'd be a whole different ball-game. Exclusivity is great for the owners but really poor on the manufacturer.
 
  #25  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
125K + options isn't "entry-level" no matter what. I think a lot of Vantage buyers are "stretch" buyers of SLs, regular Porsches and Jags. A-Ms are beautiful cars and have a devoted following no doubt. They will NEVER suceed trying to go upmarket, only down. The Vantage added volume, but it didn't draw much attention to the brand. Most Vantage buyers likely won't be buying new DB9. Making a 200K + sedan, beautiful as it might be, won't help either. I don't know the answer really, because maybe these cars cost this much to make and sell. I tell you what though, if new Vantages were starting at 85 and DB9s were at 125, it'd be a whole different ball-game. Exclusivity is great for the owners but really poor on the manufacturer.
I can't speak for anyone else but I bought my Vantage after 3 porsche's with 6 digit price tags including a 996 turbo cab and a Cayenne Turbo. My choice this time was between a Gallardo and the Vantage. I got there because I didn't want another car that looked just like every other 70K porsche. It was no "stretch" to buy this car. In the end, it was about looks and usability. The Gallardo was faster but I felt that I would drive the Aston more; having the ability to travel with bags and golf clubs. As it turns out, I was right. I drive this car every weekend. I don't race my cars and never go to the track. It's rediculous to compare the AM's with SL's, Jags or even Porsches. Just look at the production numbers. There were 100,000 997's produced. That is staggering. Trust me, I know how you feel. I had a car just like yours. It was fantastic. After a while though, I realized that I wanted more than the best performance numbers on paper. It's just my current preference. I'm more interested in the soul and style of the car. I can go as fast in this car as any that I've owned. Oh by the way, I intend to by a DBS Volante in 2010. I would have considered a DB9 but I wanted to experience a true formula one shift car. In the end, be satisfied with your car. Trying to down another brand won't change your depreciation or how your car is viewed by others or yourself. They all depreciate. It's just different strokes for different folks.
 
  #26  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:49 PM
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Absolutely. The many vantage buyers have owned M3s, Porsches. A New 997 Turbo is the same price but they deliberately chose something different because they are likely tired of having Porsches or want something a bit more exotic.

Red-devil, you should read some of the periodicals about Aston. 100 times more exotic/desirable/exclusive than Porsche and the statistics back that up. Aston has indeed succeeded in going upmarket, rather, they never left upmarket.

They are producing more cars but even their cheapest costs as much as the premiere 997 (turbo). There will always be a strong market for these cars because of the enthusiasts looking for exactly what the marque does. The V8 may suffer slightly when the economy suffers but they simply reduce production (like they have in MY09) - that protects residuals. The only reason 07-08 was so plentiful and discounted was because Ford ramped up production to inflate the sale price of the company. The market for DB9s, DBS, Rapide will never suffer. Buyers of 210-250k cars don't worry about things that buyers of 60-100k pcars do.

Porsche makes more "limited production models" total than Aston makes cars total. Aston is a league above Porsche, if not for any other reason (and there are plenty) than the price.

Surely Porsche sells plenty of cars and the demand is there. The defacto sports car for many people will always be the 911. But after you have or have had several... it seems unimaginative to keep buying the essentially same car for successive generations...

Aston occupies a very special niche and has a place in many peoples hearts.
 

Last edited by Moogle; 09-10-2008 at 05:57 PM.
  #27  
Old 09-10-2008, 07:10 PM
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I ordered my Vantage and a 997TT at about the same time thinking one would come in a year before the other and I would make a switch. They came in about 4 months apart and I had both for a while deciding which to keep. The turbo was fast but it felt so "cheap" even though it cost $15K more than the Vantage. I felt like a sucker paying Porsche so much, the big profit was just so obvious. Cheap plastic everywhere, lots of rattles and squeeks, etc. Still glad I kept the Vantage.
 
  #28  
Old 09-10-2008, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jaymoney View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but I bought my Vantage after 3 porsche's with 6 digit price tags including a 996 turbo cab and a Cayenne Turbo. My choice this time was between a Gallardo and the Vantage. I got there because I didn't want another car that looked just like every other 70K porsche. It was no "stretch" to buy this car. In the end, it was about looks and usability. The Gallardo was faster but I felt that I would drive the Aston more; having the ability to travel with bags and golf clubs. As it turns out, I was right. I drive this car every weekend. I don't race my cars and never go to the track. It's rediculous to compare the AM's with SL's, Jags or even Porsches. Just look at the production numbers. There were 100,000 997's produced. That is staggering. Trust me, I know how you feel. I had a car just like yours. It was fantastic. After a while though, I realized that I wanted more than the best performance numbers on paper. It's just my current preference. I'm more interested in the soul and style of the car. I can go as fast in this car as any that I've owned. Oh by the way, I intend to by a DBS Volante in 2010. I would have considered a DB9 but I wanted to experience a true formula one shift car. In the end, be satisfied with your car. Trying to down another brand won't change your depreciation or how your car is viewed by others or yourself. They all depreciate. It's just different strokes for different folks.
Good points. I live in Southern Cal and see plenty of Porsche's (I own two), Ferrari's and Lambo's-all with more power than the AM. The AM is about style with a little power thrown in to sweeten the deal. That is why I just ordered a DBS. As far as resale, my kids will have to deal with that as I will keep this one for them.
 
  #29  
Old 09-11-2008, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
True, but not true. So many manufacturers or "special editions" within a brand put on false airs about "limited production" & etc., when in reality they want to sell as many as they can. So many car companies get into trouble b/c of lack of volume, and Aston is one of them. A-M makes beautiful cars, but they are overpriced and their heavy & early depreciation shows it. They are trying to be Ferrari when in reality they should be more LIKE Porsche.
Overpriced is a very relative thing. Coming from various 996s, the interior of the AM alone would be worth the switch.
The Exterior seals the deal even though it costs 30% more than the equivalent performing Porsche.
Finally, the sound makes you love it every time. My 996's all sounded quite anemic without straight pipes.

In my GT3 I can forgive the poor interior build quality, in fact I stripped out most of it and added a cage and recaros...

Inside a Turbo/C2/etc I cannot excuse the poor base equipment level because they are sold as GT sportscars.

You have to look at this relatively.

If you upgrade options on a 85k base 997C2S(the most comparable Porsche Performance wise) to AMV8 base trim levels, the delta would decrease significantly.
Ticking most of the exclusive leather options and aluminum bits on the Porsche order guide easily brings a base C2S to 100k.
 

Last edited by Moogle; 09-11-2008 at 01:05 AM.
  #30  
Old 09-11-2008, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Moogle View Post
Overpriced is a very relative thing. Coming from various 996s, the interior of the AM alone would be worth the switch.
The Exterior seals the deal even though it costs 30% more than the equivalent performing Porsche.
Finally, the sound makes you love it every time. My 996's all sounded quite anemic without straight pipes.

In my GT3 I can forgive the poor interior build quality, in fact I stripped out most of it and added a cage and recaros...

Inside a Turbo/C2/etc I cannot excuse the poor base equipment level because they are sold as GT sportscars.

You have to look at this relatively.

If you upgrade options on a 85k base 997C2S(the most comparable Porsche Performance wise) to AMV8 base trim levels, the delta would decrease significantly.
Ticking most of the exclusive leather options and aluminum bits on the Porsche order guide easily brings a base C2S to 100k.
This is my point exactly. My last car before the Vantage was a 2006 C2S. With the options in the middle of my wish list, the car rose to $109K.
 

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