^^^ Right. The One-77 isn't a version of VH. Its panels are alloy. The structure is a carbon fiber monococque, and that structure is a thing of extraordinary beauty. Some of the under-hood carbon structure doubles as engine intake ducting. And so on. It's a spectacular thing, in a totally different league from the F12. It's really not comparable, and there's no way it could be built, or sold, at a price close to the Ferrari's.

 

Couple of comments about the 1-77 and the R&D, bank balance and so on. From what I heard, the 1-77 was entirely funded prior to pulling the trigger on the project by a wealthy buyer who committed to purchase a fair number of them if it were produced. Similarly the CC100 was funded from the outset. So there wasn't necessarily a structured R&D process, cost/benenfit analysis. From my understanding it was more of an opportunistic situation.

They also used that platform to R&D the new electronics and variable timing that has come in on the new Vanquish. At least, that is my understanding. Second-hand info so could be inaccurate.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_VH_platform
"VH Generation4
Based on VH Generation2, Generation4 underpins the new Aston Martin Vanquish. It is based on the Carbon architecture found in the One-77 and uses far more carbon fibre in its design than previous VH Chassis' and it, in turn, will be used as a basis for all new Aston Martins in the years to come.[5]"

and

"But the One-77 is meant to point the way forward for Aston. “With the One-77, we have taken the VH platform on a journey, with the engineering team stretching the boundaries”..."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...ons-resurgence

 

Regardless of any factory marketing speak, the aluminum VH platform under the Vanquish looks nothing like the CF tub from the 1-77. The VH platform for the DBS also uses some CF structurally. However saying that the 1-77 is the VH platform taken on journey, is a real stretch so to speak. Looking at pictures of both in naked form and saying they are related is like saying my wife and Scarlett Johansson are 'the same'.

 

Your wife is better of course!

 

RossL,

Also from Wikipedia: "The One-77 features a full carbon fibre monocoque chassis..."

VH is fantastic, but... I'm not saying that there is no VH in the One-77, and VH4 may well draw from the One-77, but VH ain't a full carbon monocoque!

Chassis photo:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QxiAwBg&iact=c

Link (hopefully) to One-77 brochure (not all that informative, but interesting nonetheless):

http://cdn.astonmartin.com/sitefinit...h.pdf?sfvrsn=0

 

You are getting wrapped around the axle of what the One-77 is today. What I was proposing was having the One-77 be the Vanquish and since the One-77 is based off the VH platform, carbon fiber or aluminum doesn't matter, as all the bits should fit into place.

 

Wikipedia isn't always right

The One-77 is what the One-77 -- a full carbon monocoque. The VH cars, including the new Vanquish, are aluminum. Yes, there is some carbon in the rear of the new Vanquish, but it certainly does not have a full carbon monocoque. BIG difference. The One-77 could not have been the new Vanquish at anything near the Vanquish price. Now, the 12C is a full carbon monocoque, but its carbon tub was designed to be (relatively) mass-produced, as is the Aventador's. The Aventador is, of course, significantly less expensive than the One-77.

Could Aston have done something similar to the One-77 for an Aventador price? I don't know, of course, but I can't imagine it would be finished and detailed to the level the One-77 is (the Lambo certainly isn't). If somehow they could, it would be utterly spectacular.

Have you seen a One-77 up close and had the opportunity to look at it carefully? The craftsmanship is incredible -- the carbon structure, the billet alloy, the suspension... It's far beyond the Vanquish, F12, Aventador, etc.

 

You meant to swap those, right? One-77 is over $1.4m and the Aventador is under half a mill.

 

I give up. I'm trying to convey a hypothetical option for Aston but you won't give up what the current reality is. You win.

 

Blue,

Oops. Now fixed, thanks

RossL,

You pointed to the Wikipedia saying the One-77 is a VH car, which if true could make your hypothetical a hugely interesting idea. From my understanding of it, it's a full carbon monocoque and not a VH car; all the bits would not fit, and it's not a realistic hypothetical because there's no way it could've been priced anywhere near the Vanquish.

You said in an earlier post that kicked this debate off, "What if the One77 was the Vanquish and the One77 never existed." Are you saying we ignore the current reality of what the car actually is? In what way? Should the One-77 have been priced at or near the Vanquish? I've said it couldn't have been. Are you saying the Vanquish should have been a VH car (not carbon-tubbed) -- basically a Vanquish chassis with a One-77 body and engine? If I'm missing your point, please help me understand it.

 

i think that Aston would make the case that the new Vanquish is as close as they could come to the one-77 (and used as much technology/design/etc) at its price point.

To go any further they would be substantially out of the $300K price class and sell far fewer. There is always this trade-of between price and volume, and volume drives costs.

Assuming that Aston is competent at running their business and optimizing this outcome, we have to assume they did the best they could with the Vanquish.

Personally, I think they should have gotten to a DSG with it, applicable subsequently to the whole line.

 

Perhaps they did but why couldn't they get more HP and add additional to the price tag? They were able to extract 750hp out of the One-77 so tone it down a little for reliability and put it to use. The current market shows that people are willing to spend 300k plus for a car so get the HP north of 600 at least (650+ preferred), add another 20-100k to the price and put a real DCT in. Now you have an option to the Ferrari offerings.

 

I'm loving this. If you ran Aston, I'd buy one.

This is where philosophy and logistics clash. There has GOT to be a reason (other than money) why Aston hasn't done something like this.

Dual clutches aren't foreign anymore (standard on most supercars), 500HP should be the starting point - not the end point. Times have changed. You can still have all of the nifty little things that separates Aston as a brand from other mainstream high-end constructors (Porsche/Ferrari/etc...). Simply because you make something limited and raise the cost through the roof, doesn't mean it is necessarily worth it.

 

One of the issues is traction. What RWD car do you see putting down that kind of power?