Love you guys! You better get yourselves a BIG checkbook for all of this stuff. Just ask BR what they think....eye watering will be their answer I suspect. When you get it all sorted and packaged up, let us know how much a kit will cost.

 

No space for FMIC, the radiator support and cross member make that difficult at best. Unless you want to start cutting things with a cutoff wheel. (I don't as a design parameter)

The shortest path and least pressure drop across the AWIC is using a short as possible pipe to the TB from the Turbo outlet and putting the AWIC in the manifold. It also gives the compressed air less time to heat up after the IC by running it to the nose and back etc.. In addition, the Laminova cores create a laminar flow pattern after the air charge is cooled and that helps in the turbulence reduction in the charge before it enters the cylinder. It's pretty trick stuff. I believe the new Corvett ZR1's are using them now. I designed this system I posted in the pics on this thread back in 2003, before is was popular. There was a Danish Company (Kleemann) that tuned AMG E class to go 334 Kmh for a class record, and they got me hooked on Opcon/Laminova stuff. The only thing similar at the time was the MC Laren MB SLR.

Anyway, as far as Meth etc. I do not prefer these setups, as you need to keep re-filling the meth tank. I prefer sealed systems or systems where you only add petrol and enjoy driving. The system takes care of itself. That's a design parameter in all the stuff I build, it does not mean that Meth injection doesn't work. I just think that If I go for a Sunday drive on an Autobahn road in Germany, why should I stop unless it's for petrol or a restroom break.?

Regards

 

Unless you want it on a race car, none of this stuff will be street legal on an emission controlled car in the USA. In Germany, TUV will also make you take it off. Now, for a race system, I would use a Pectel MQ12/SQ6M12 like on the DB9R and use a Le Mans Tub. It's lighter, and all the street bits are already gone, and saving all that weight means i can have a car with less power that is faster. In NA form, these engines do 600+HP with restrictors imposed by the series.

The cost of a kit will entail most of the money in certification with the regulatory agencies, and absolutely be expensive. None of this means that it cannot be done. (I have seen a Novitec-Rotrex twin supercharged kit for a F599 for $80+K plus installation.)

However, a bolt on kit... Probably not going to be offered, as the market for this in the Aston community is too small to justify anyone developing and selling a certified kit.

However, if someone was willing to overlook their checking account balance, they would have a very unique vehicle in an Aston V12 TT.

Hint.... If you install the system I have designed here, and use the stock ECU or a piggyback, the car will be OBD II friendly, and you can do any smog test with ease. It would be a stealth system that could be smog checked at an independent smog place that doesn't know about Astons, and they will most likely miss the point of two little holes in the manifold that carry water lines and disappear into the engine bay. They won't be able to see anything else, as it would be hidden with thermal shielding etc. and the cars have a full belly pan that is not neccessary to remove to do an emissions test....

Internally gated turbos would also dump the flow into the exhaust, and as long as all the sensors are hooked up, the ECU will just tell the State's computer that all is well and be extremely quiet. You could also keep the stock muffler as well or put on a Quicksilver/Larini/Etc. if you wanted..

I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law here, just voicing an opinion.

 

Funny guy you are... Vtec wins... I should tell my cousin, he races those things and they get insane numbers out of a 4 cylinder..

Anyway, the traction control usually retards timing based on the slip rules of the driven wheels/axle. You can also adjust the wastegate but the timing reduction is faster.. There are several algorithms and methods to do this..

In the Motec/Pectel units, you can limit many things by gear, RPM, and lots of other things.. The units are really amazing to control all sorts of little details. it means you need to know what you're doing, but that's why the pros use them..

 

I made 815whp on my 4 cylinder 06 EVO. I was also one of the first to put a 2.4L in the EVO. Took the 4G64 (Galant Motor) and mated that with the 4G63 (2.0L EVO Head). 4G64 had a 6mm higher deck height and larger bore, that's practically the only difference between the two motors. I threw in a 3.14CH pistons w/ 6mm longer rods and had a 10.5:1 9000rpm 2.4L. Fun Fun in the sun. Anyway, I'm out of that community and want to waste thousands on dollars on a new project and I have my eyes set on the Vantage.

Well I'm not going to hack up the frame for a FMIC. Scratch that off the list. lol

The NSX community has used Laminova cores in the past and a back to back, non cooled setup to Laminova AWIC picked up 37whp at the same boost pressure. There are tons of large block Chevy/Ford guys running non cooled turbos making 800+whp. If I can build a 6.0 that flows just as efficient as their 6.0 we may be onto something. I have E85 available to me and drove my old car on E85 daily for 3 solid years putting 40k on the OD. I think I'm going to first design a HTA3586 Twin turbo setup on E85 with no intercooler and then switch to your design and see the before/after. I'm almost 100% positive that E85 will negate needing any type of IC with boost pressures below 12-15psi. The cooling properties are vastly different than 93OCT and cools almost as good as C/Q16. I need to talk to FIC and see if they can make me custom E85 injectors to try this out. I'd also need to increase fuel by 30% per combustion cycle just to run E85. Now I'm running into fuel pump issues, but I should be able to get that taken care of. This wouldn't be the most practical and limit where I could drive my car, but I think it would be a fun place to start before switching over to a Laminova type core. I only got 18mpg on my EVO on E85 so I cant even begin to know what the Vantage would be with E85. Adding the Laminova core down the road wouldn't be too hard as most of the original system would still remain, just adding the core and changing the piping a bit.

I'm used to using a 3-port boost controller interfaced with the ECU to control boost with an AEM by gear and rpm. This cut .5 off my 1/4 with full drag radial on an AWD drive car. If I had problems hooking with an AWD on drag radials the Aston would have to have problems. I know you mentioned the traction control being fairly good, but in my experience pulling timing to control traction is a less efficient way due to the ECU pulling so many degrees the car feels as if you hit a brick wall in power. Almost like an overboost cut but for timing. We managed to use boost control to keep the car right at the verge of losing traction, but not... That was where she was the fastest. We've had much better success pulling timing for det counts only and pulling boost for traction. Just my 2cents.

Regardless, I think I need a 2nd job as the military doesn't pay me enough for all my hobbies. haha

 

I am no engineer but I would guess that you will need plenty of air exits from the engine area to get all of the hot air from the massive cooling. Carol Smith's book Prepare to Win and Tune to Win have information that might be helpful. I might add that you will need a larger fuel pump to provide fuel and higher pressure to the fuel rail/injectors.
Another thought. Will the tranny/clutch handle all of the extra power and torque?
Good luck sounds like this will be a screamer.

 

We covered the transmission and clutch a few posts back I know there's a lot to read but its well worth it!

 

Nice esoteric discussion going on here, but like I tried to say earlier, a complete waste of time. It's never gonna' happen because it's too damn expensive to do on a V12 Aston. Just fugedaboutit...

 

This guy lol

 

To be honest, the expensive part will be the incorp of the AWIC. Any work on the Aston is expensive. I've been quoted 10-12K dollars to do full head build for the car. There is nothing cheap about this car. If you look at it NA vs FI your dollar gets you a lot more with FI. Those of us willing to pay the money to do a build, would be better off to go FI in the end. I'm going to try and do a build sheet and see what it would cost me with wholesale pricing just for laughs and giggles. It won't cost much more than a std twin turbo setup that I've done on other cars, but shops will charge you a butt load more because it is for an Aston. Prime example, headers are $6,000 for the V12 Aston, and only cost a few hundred more to build than Mustang headers do... But you don't see shops charging 6k for mustang headers, do you? They retail for $400-700. You need to pay to play.

Likely no shop will create a kit for this. I could talk to my old shop and see if they would be willing to go into production on a kit we design, but my guess would be no. It is too much R&D for just a few customers. I'm excited to see what we come up with, and I'll do my best to help and produce some parts.

I'm out of the country until next year though and the first thing on my list an engine build. I'm looking at a sleeved/o-ringed 6.5L with built heads. That comes first, then I'll move to the turbos. So for me personally, I'm still a few years away from even getting to FI. Also let me know if any of your guys come across a V12 Vantage with a blown motor. I want!

 

I like the idea of the Laminova liquid-to-air intercoolers; they offer efficient cooling in a compact package.

For those concerned with the compression ratio, consider this: most aftermarket bolt-on turbo kits available these days go on cars with 10:1 C/R or more; the trick is the tuning and the cooling. E85 is awesome but not available everywhere, and you have to make fairly substantial modifications to the fuel system in order to use it. A lot of the RS6 guys use water/methanol injection with pump gas due to space constrictions in the engine compartment, and lack of E85 availability. It's a simple and inexpensive way to keep the air charge cool. Sure you have to refill the tank every now and then, but it's not as if we're putting 10,000 miles/yr on these cars. They can also be outfitted with a failsafe so if/when the tank runs dry it won't cause problems. Think of it as an older car that needs to have the oil topped off every now and then, or a new diesel that needs the urea solution topped off between service intervals.

I would love to see one of these cars with 1,000+hp; Godspeed, gentlemen!

 

Agree on N/A vs FI, but for some people N/A is a beautiful thing and worth the extra money without the exceptional gains.

Problem with Astons is economies of scale. They only make 3-4k cars per year, globally, and those are split between the Vantages, DBs, Vanquishes, and Rapides - so on a per-model basis you're not getting a large market. On top of that, most people don't modify Astons, so now your potential market has shrunk even more. We're a select bunch lol. Mustangs, meanwhile, are a dime a dozen and tons of people modify them so the economies of scale are vastly different.

 

Exactly, so really this whole discussion is just a lot of gum flappin' (although interesting gum flappin').

The only way you'll ever see a TT V12 in an Aston, is if the factory does it, not by any amateur hotrodders.

 

Lets try not to be too optimistic. It's hard for some people that own Jags, I understand.

 

I'm going NA first, because I'd like to try for 650hp NA before going FI. We will have to wait and see what I figure out and how much money the wife is letting me have... lol

Yep, exactly. That was the point I was making.