Carbon Brakes
#16
03-20-2018, 02:15 PM
I applaud you for attempting to change ingrained behaviours, although I fear it will be an uphill battle.
That being said, I still won't be getting my cars washed by dealers anytime soon. Dealer car washes are all about rapid throughput. If the car looks clean and shiny to them from 10 paces away, job done.
That being said, I still won't be getting my cars washed by dealers anytime soon. Dealer car washes are all about rapid throughput. If the car looks clean and shiny to them from 10 paces away, job done.
I am on the OCD perfect as a car can be side. Most people are not close to how I am around vehicles.
If all can be educated most can be done with little to no expense to the dealer. They just change how they operate and conduct the washes and cleanups. Might have to spend a bit to get proper soaps, MF towels, and a Metro blow dryer. And take an extra 20min a car to get done.
Biggest is SOLD cars that have swirls and marring on them that could have been mostly prevented. If that can be remedied then its a start.
My philosophy is if I were to spend 100k plus on a car, it better be flawless. Period. Or I wont buy it. Unfortunately that is not the case with the vast majority of high end cars. I saw factory pigtails on a 400k Lambo last week. Plus some holograms and nicks.
#17
03-20-2018, 06:21 PM
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Hehe..You asked a salesman about the issue of CCM brakes and washing? That would be like asking which oil is best for your differential 5w30 or BOT270 or Axle Universal Fluid.
If it isn't in the owners manual, you were never advised..simple rule. If it's in the owners manual, you've been advised. Sure it's devils advocate but did you see the size of the owners manual!!? Would be impossible for a salesman to shift through everything inside.
I know owners manual can be vague, but Aston Martin is really in depth for info in these. The CCM brakes are explained under Maintenance > Vehicle Cleaning
Like spinecho mentioned, you cannot pressure wash the CCM discs. This flushes off the transfer layer that provides a good mating surface and will provoke water ingress into discs. The discs are porous and will absorb most fluids, but rain water and water splashed will not cause any damage(with help of transfer layer being present still).
If you use wheel spines from a spray bottle, stay clear of the discs, the disc can and will absorb this chemical and promote a squeak.squeal that is NOT covered by warranty(if still valid). Like the owners manual states, mild soap water is fine..pressure washed and chemicals is calling for squeak/squealing issues.
If it isn't in the owners manual, you were never advised..simple rule. If it's in the owners manual, you've been advised. Sure it's devils advocate but did you see the size of the owners manual!!? Would be impossible for a salesman to shift through everything inside.
I know owners manual can be vague, but Aston Martin is really in depth for info in these. The CCM brakes are explained under Maintenance > Vehicle Cleaning
Like spinecho mentioned, you cannot pressure wash the CCM discs. This flushes off the transfer layer that provides a good mating surface and will provoke water ingress into discs. The discs are porous and will absorb most fluids, but rain water and water splashed will not cause any damage(with help of transfer layer being present still).
If you use wheel spines from a spray bottle, stay clear of the discs, the disc can and will absorb this chemical and promote a squeak.squeal that is NOT covered by warranty(if still valid). Like the owners manual states, mild soap water is fine..pressure washed and chemicals is calling for squeak/squealing issues.
#18
03-20-2018, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,978
Rep Power: 204 Dealer Plan----
I am working with a Aston dealer and building a program to completely change the way car washing and detailing is done. From the initial prep of a new car, to maintenance washed on the lot, to final delivery.
Program is going to include:
1. Educating the detail shop workers how to properly wash a car to minimize marring.
2. Educating them on how to dry a car to minimize marring/
Did you know 25% of scratches, swirls, and marring comes from washing the car?
Did you know 75% of scratches, swirls, and marring comes from drying the car?
3. Then the sales group needs to be aware of what not to do. Preferably I would like to swat any hand or fingers that touch a cars paint with a stiff switch. Then they wouldn't do it any more. NO MORE wiping showroom cars unless care is taken when doing so.
4. Educating the customer during delivery. Part of the maintenance cycle. Documents provided to them explaining the various processes and what to use and not use.
If all that is done, then people would not mess up with damaging a part, or ruining the finish of thier new car.
I am working with a Aston dealer and building a program to completely change the way car washing and detailing is done. From the initial prep of a new car, to maintenance washed on the lot, to final delivery.
Program is going to include:
1. Educating the detail shop workers how to properly wash a car to minimize marring.
2. Educating them on how to dry a car to minimize marring/
Did you know 25% of scratches, swirls, and marring comes from washing the car?
Did you know 75% of scratches, swirls, and marring comes from drying the car?
3. Then the sales group needs to be aware of what not to do. Preferably I would like to swat any hand or fingers that touch a cars paint with a stiff switch. Then they wouldn't do it any more. NO MORE wiping showroom cars unless care is taken when doing so.
4. Educating the customer during delivery. Part of the maintenance cycle. Documents provided to them explaining the various processes and what to use and not use.
If all that is done, then people would not mess up with damaging a part, or ruining the finish of thier new car.
I'm saying this because, most dealers will not invest into car washer training, being the salary is at entry level and no auto manufacture will return the investment of the training. If a tech goes on training, manufacture helps either pay entire or partial cost, if a car washer gets trained, dealer eats entire cost..keeping in mind most car washes are free as well so no return from investment.
The detailers usually don't get recycled over often, most of the time they're paid above entry and stick around if the environment is cool..but these usually arent the same guys touching a car after a service, unless the advisor sold a complete detailing. As for quick wash, that's your jockey and car wash crew that's really just passing the hours till the next pay.
This may be not the story of all dealers, but will be summed up by a large amount of them for any brands...
#19
03-20-2018, 06:51 PM
That's cool but 80% of the jockey/car washers are recycled throughout the seasons(3-4 times a year). For example, I've been at my dealer for 14 years and have no clue what the present car washer's names are. Not being a *****, just after a decade of learning an entire new staff through each "season", they've all adopted the name Bro's and Dude's!
I'm saying this because, most dealers will not invest into car washer training, being the salary is at entry level and no auto manufacture will return the investment of the training. If a tech goes on training, manufacture helps either pay entire or partial cost, if a car washer gets trained, dealer eats entire cost..keeping in mind most car washes are free as well so no return from investment.
The detailers usually don't get recycled over often, most of the time they're paid above entry and stick around if the environment is cool..but these usually arent the same guys touching a car after a service, unless the advisor sold a complete detailing. As for quick wash, that's your jockey and car wash crew that's really just passing the hours till the next pay.
This may be not the story of all dealers, but will be summed up by a large amount of them for any brands...
I'm saying this because, most dealers will not invest into car washer training, being the salary is at entry level and no auto manufacture will return the investment of the training. If a tech goes on training, manufacture helps either pay entire or partial cost, if a car washer gets trained, dealer eats entire cost..keeping in mind most car washes are free as well so no return from investment.
The detailers usually don't get recycled over often, most of the time they're paid above entry and stick around if the environment is cool..but these usually arent the same guys touching a car after a service, unless the advisor sold a complete detailing. As for quick wash, that's your jockey and car wash crew that's really just passing the hours till the next pay.
This may be not the story of all dealers, but will be summed up by a large amount of them for any brands...
Absolutely correct! Thats part of this battle. My approach is the process. Doesn't take alot just proper tools, techniques.
If the yahoos just keep the wash mitt and soap clean, that is half the battle. Biggest will be getting them to air dry the vehicle. Keep the towels off them.
But, I am working all this as a favor to the dealer. Part of the Aston Martin Lifestyle program they are doing with the factory. The initial training will be free. They just have to cough up some funds for proper cleaning. At least mainly for the Brand New Cars.
Then will be doing a training session for customers once or twice this summer season.
We will see.
PS----never knew about the pressure washing issue with the discs. Thanks for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#21
03-21-2018, 03:00 PM
Maybe we can make sticky for the Special Vehicle Care 101 series that can include items such as this, and other quirks. Easy place to find them
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