Hello,

I'm new here and got an account to try to get some advice from people that are familiar with both these cars and their aftermarket, since I'm trying to feel out whether I want to go after a V12Vantage or the 'S'. I'm interested in a previous-gen vantage because of the way they look and because of their GT/Sportscar nature. I like a fast little car with a decent trunk, but I'll just say that responses pointing me toward other vehicles aren't going to be super helpful to me because the looks of these cars are something I've fantasized about for a very long time. The other *critical* factor is that I don't want the paddles. I don't like driving paddles. I've driven some cars with amazing paddleshift systems like the PDK, and it really removes part of the driving experience I've loved since I learned how to drive. If someone gave me a paddleshift car as a present I'd be looking to sell it so I could buy a stick, or convert it to stick; simple as that.

Basically what I'm wondering centers around getting a manual V12 and trying to upgrade the engine and other systems to add lightness and bring that engine into the near past (I don't think it had VVT...), vs buying an S and trying to convert it to a manual. I've seen online that people who like the stick driving experience find the 7-speed's change to be pretty unsatisfying, but really liked the 6-speed change in the older car. I'd probably still try to modify the S to improve its performance; I think I ultimately want a more hardcore version of the car.

I should also say here that I've found a post from Jan 2020 about whether the conversion on the 7speed manual was possible. I noted that the OP seemed to conclude the swap was possible for ~20K (for an American; I guess a lot of the cost was shipping a large car part to Graziano in Britian?). I've gone through this (admittedly less painful) process with an E46 M3 and am pretty happy with the results there, so I wouldn't be totally horrified by this prospect. I really want to drive the car, so questions of collectors value are not super important to me.

I actually emailed Aston Martin's 'works' to see if they offered anything along any of these lines, as I'd heard they offered a stick conversion for mid-aughts Vanquishes (yeah I know those cars didn't have a transaxle). No reply from them, but if I just got unlucky and people on this forum have had better luck trying to do performance upgrades through them I'd be interested to hear it.

Thanks for humoring a newbie.

 

While I will acknowledge that the V12 cars are certainly very special, you ought to try a 2012 or later V8V. I've got a 2013 that is just a terrific car. The 420 HP motor, even in stock form, is more than adequate. I came to Astons from a long ownership history of Porsches and BMWs, to include a number of M cars, both older and newer. Still got several of those - as you can see in my sig. The V8 cars are obviously lighter, and just fantastic to drive.

Good luck in your search for the right car!

 

Thanks for your response. I’m pretty keen on specifically the v12. I understand the V8 is great value and some say they drive better (though I note some seem to find the v12 drive supreme and neither car is particularly light) but it just doesn’t appeal in the same way. I want to have the chance to drive an NA V12 before the world moves on completely and I love the look of the vantage so although I might take the search in a different direction it’s unlikely to be toward a front engined v8.

 

A paddle v12s shifts nothing like a PDK. It is far more engaging since you do have to do similar things as you would using a stick. You’ve got to vary throttle lift to match the rpm and rpm rate to get a smooth up shift. It’s not a complete manual experience, but neither is it an auto experience like a PDK.

The 6 speed is not a great shifting trans. If you have experience with smooth shifting manuals, you’ll be somewhat disappointed with the shift quality. I personally love slick shifting manuals; the Graziano is not one of them.

You need to try both trans types; you might find yourself changing your opinion.

 

I would agree that the 6 speed in my Vantage is not quite to the "rifle-bolt" level of the G50 transmission in my 1987 and 1988 Porsche Carreras and 1990 C2 (which is the finest manual I have experienced), but once it gets warmed up and you get the feel, it is an excellent manual tranny. Certainly every bit the equal of the 6 speed in my BMW M3, which is very, very good.

Never driven a sportshift Aston, so I can offer no opinion on it.

 

To pick up on XJRS Owner's comments, the manual character of Sportshift (and lack of PDK or torque converter auto character) is debatably why it got a bad rap from the automotive press. At least, those of us who like the transmission will have that opinion. If you approach it with the expectation it will behave and perform like a dual clutch, you will indeed be disappointed, and certainly most of the critical comments by journalists were inappropriately prefaced with comparisons to dual clutch systems. If you approach it as a manual without a clutch pedal, you might be very happy, as I was and remain.

 

I get wanting the V12 over the V8. I would go for the newest model year you can find and the S models just tend to be more "special".

 

EDIT: This was in response to XJRS owner's post. I failed to trigger the "quote" correctly.

From what I've read it shifts a lot more like the SMG I'm familiar with from the E46 M3, which I just paid someone to swap out for a stick. I know you have to manage the throttle on a single clutch, and I can see the argument about that being more engaging than the really good dual clutches out there. Like I said, I've driven that car for years and I just don't think I'm interested.

 

I appreciate everyone who's posted so-far's input, but what I'm actually looking for is a path to either turn a V12S into a manual, or buy a V12 that is already a manual and upgrade it until it is more like an S. I was wondering if the experienced parties out there had ever done something like either of these two things, aside from the post I linked in the first post of this thread where someone found a way to send their vehicle (?or transmission?) to graziano _in Britian_ to get the swap done.

 

M3s do shift pretty nice (or at least the older one I have does). To clarify, your vantage is one of the V8S types; is the 6MT in that model the same as on the V12 with a 6MT? My impression was that they were different (I am almost certain the clutch itself is, because apparently that's an upgrade for V8 cars...) but perhaps the feel is comparable?

 

Sadly I never went any further.
My wife scared me off the project to create a 100k+ pile of non finished project.

However I had a chat with a guy from an Aston Facebook group who talked to Graziano US, in extension of my email conversation with UK.
He got priced a full manual gear box for 8.5k what could be another option to keep the OEM setup to revert or what ever.

I can give you the contact if you are interested.

 

There are so many reasons why that project makes sense.
From hardly available to limited colors over triple priced are a few bullets what would justify the project.

When I traced the market, there was only a green and black manual S for sale global.
Both are no-go colors for me and both were asking for a decent 100k+ premium above nice colors and more appealing interiors Sport Shift models.

 

Ah, well, they only made 200 for America, IIRC. There's a fair premium for them now, and many are low mileage (meaning that my wanting to drive it would screw up its 'collectors value' or whatever). I also have predilections for certain color/interior combinations, and the much larger pool of sportshift "S" cars makes it more likely that I'd be able to find one similar to my liking.

There was an "S" manual that got sold in Elkart Lake, WI, a while ago now that I saw on a classified ad. At the time I wasn't in position to buy, but if that car comes up for sale it'd basically solve my problem. Aside from the wheels, it's pretty near perfect.

 

Ah, Zettinger beat me to it. This is my response in a nutshell. 100k is a lot of k for a markup. It's not as nutty as the F599 markup for sticks...but really not great.

 

I would definitely be interested, please do send along the contact. The details of the operation matter, of course, but this might be the path for me. Thank you for chiming in!

Did you already have a lot of sunk costs, or what'd you mean by "100k+ pile of non finished project," out of curiosity?