Ok I have been trying to get my submarine/kick in the butt to start to no avail.

It cranks, shudders but never start. The key is accepted and the alarm red light stops blinking once the crystal key is inserted. It is not fuel pump related and I now wonder it It has anything to do with the accident "kick in the butt" was involved into.

No airbag deployment, the crash fuse is intact.

So here is my question: The PATS could have something to do with this but I don't think so. Can one of the messages the car displays be stopping the engine from starting, like a service message stating that the car must be brought to the dealership?

Could I address one of those messages, or addressing all of them with a bi-directional code reader, erase them and solve the starting/non-starting issue?

What's yall's 2 cents on this?

Francis

 

do you have the shop manual for your model?

 

Yes. Do you think the shop manual addresses such issues?

 

workshop manual can help address all sorts of ssystem issues... however, engines and starting issues are quite common problems with all sorts of ICEs...

Fuel , spark, etc are all common issues and AM engines run the same but just with different locations of parts

 

An accident was mentioned. Whats the details? Front Impact, rear impact, was the car parked or in motion ? It might help the forum participants help you. Hopefully it's not too complex of an issue to sort out.

 

The impact was in the rear and it was massive. It looks like the car was in motion but no airbag deployed.

 

You likely have been down this thought process...

And, I apologize, I am only (intimately) familar with the DB9. The ECUs are Ford. So, the airbag deployment, impact shutoffs systems are all Ford. IIRC for the Ford, the fuel pumps are shutoff on impact and there is a reset switch. I've not seen that on my DB9. To verify my fuel pumps were working, I measured the current across the fuse when I turned the car on. (I used a fuse expansion block and wired it to a remote fuse which let me put a DMM in serial.)

Are you getting spark? On the DB9 which fixed cams (no VANOS), there is only a crankshaft sensor. IT absolutely has to be in the correct location and detecting the rotation of the flywheel. To test this and be absolutely certain, I would tap into the signal line and put a OScope on it and verify a pulse train. I would then pull a plug and ensuring that it is grounded (body against metal), turn the crank to test (I suppose you could do this first, but I would want to see a valid pulse train from the crank as well). It would not surprise me that a sensor cracked/wire broke or connector came partially undone as a result of the impact...

And, I'm assuming you have tried having your motor snort starter fluid. That eliminates most of the issues as almost any compression, with any spark will cause a backfire or sputter.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for this reply. Very In depth analysis. I must clarify one thing, the car you see on the pictures is now a donner car for a flooded car. So I took all the electronics from the smashed car to rebuild the flooded car.

In effect, the electronics from the smashed car are now in the flooded car so all related mechanical elements that are now attached to the electronics on the smashed car have not been involved in the impact.

If the issue is a shutdown from the smashed car electronically speaking, how do I reset that? With a switch or by resetting something using an OBD2 bi-directional tool? And if do, what kind of code am I looking for?

Francis

 

There are so many threads about this car. It would be easier to follow if it were just a single project thread. With that out of the way...

I recall you saying that you were not able to read any codes from the car at one point. Has this changed? If not then there's a canbus fault on the car. Even the most simple OBD tool should be able to connect and read something. This should be your number one focus. Without knowing exactly what codes the car is reporting it's impossible to truly know what's going on. Look over the canbus wiring diagrams in the service manual and look for the modules with the 120Ohm termination. If any of those are not connected then the canbus will be open and the car modules cannot communicate with each other.

The keys, the CEM and both PCMs *must* be from the same vehicle or it will never start. The VIN is programmed into these three modules and they have to match. The DIM should be from the same vehicle as the other modules to keep the mileage intact. The car will prevent start by shutting off the fuel system if any security requirements are not met. You can chase down fueling symptoms all day, but it's a waste of time until you get this sorted out.

Don't over look other bits of the car that could be damaged by water ingress... The throttle pedal comes to mind. If the pots are damaged that could introduce throttle plausibility errors that could inhibit start. OBD codes will give you an indication.

At the end of all of this, even if you do get the car running, the VINs of the CEM and PCMs will not match your chassis vin and you will never be able to register it under your local motor vehicle authority. Not a huge issue as long as you retain your original modules and they're not too badly damaged and can be cloned. The PCMs are weatherproof, but the CEM is susceptible to corrosion from water ingress.

I'm not trying to discourage you by any means. This is a huge undertaking and I'm actually pretty interested in how you progress.

 

Thank you for this very helpful message.

I will unpack this by responding this way:

I don't recall having an issue with reading codes. My OBD2 gives me a plethora of messages...

I will get them to you on another reply as I am out of the house at the moment.

I have transferred all computers from kick in the butt to submarine but now that you mention it, the cluster presently in the car is the original. I did "re-use" that element because it shows millage of 16 000 where the damaged car's cluster shows 29 790 miles...

That's in contravention of your 3 units from the same car rule. I must try that first.

 

On the subject of registration, here in Switzerland the process does not check the computers of a car, just it's road worthiness and safety of operation test as well as the vin shown on the dash and title.

My title is a non-registrable one from the flood and mildew. I removed all of those elements with possible biohazard risks.

This will be acceptable for registration in Switzerland. Besides. If it comes to mismatch of serial numbers, I have the title for both cars.

So I guess that could open a path to registration it it was an issue.

Francis

 

That's an interesting bit of information about the registration. In the US we have an annual emissions inspection. All this involves is checking for a MIL light on the dash and making sure all of the OBD emissions monitors are functional, complete, and ready. If the chassis VIN doesn't match in the computers then the test fails since the test is *technically* performed on another vehicle.

 

Ok! I never would have thought of that this way. Would that mean that Copart cars offered with VIN issues can't be registered in the US anymore?

That could be very interesting for me... I am looking for a Range Rover L405 with a 6 cylinder motor and right now two are offered with vin issues. They may go for dirt cheap!

Francis

 

Just made it home and connected my Topdon tool and got an interesting message amongst about 20 messages, mostly airbag, passengers seat positions, bla, bla, bla...

But one will peak your interest. Check the picture and let me know how to fix it, if you know.

Francis

 

The PATS has to be coded to the ECUs, the CEM and the key, I believe, otherwise no start. When I had my PTECs repaired from my gen 1 Vanquish, the repair guys needed the PATS from the car so they could verify successful PTEC repair on another Vanquish. All that stuff talks to each other and needs to match to allow a start.