Hi all,

I swapped out the seized motor on my 2004 GTC (quit the process) with an engine from a same year GTC vehicle.

Wondering if there is anything I need to program with either ECU (master or slave) to get the engine to turn over since it is same year? I have the ross tech cable/software, many thanks in advance!

 

Guess you need to relearn the immobiliser

 

This is not needed if only the engine itself was replaced, as electronics and the IMMO only deal with certain control modules, not the physical aspect of the engine itself.

Johnny

 

Hello @Bently2004G_T ,
Please tell what the situation is now, are you saying that the engine is not cranking at all ?

If you replaced only the complete engine, but retained the original engine ECU'S in the cowl area, and you have the original steering column, KESSY module in place, then replacement of the engine does not require any programming, and being that you replaced a 2004 with a 2004, I see no issue with the engine wiring harness, but do tell us, did you use your original engine wiring harness, or did the replacement come with it's own.

Johnny

 

Hi @Johnny Hotspur GT it sounds like it is trying to- (see attached video for initial startup). It is original KESSY, original ECUs, original steering column- I did use the replacement engine wire harnesses that it came with. Ross tech scan shows a couple faults:

Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BEB1.clb Part No SW: 07C 906 018 J
4 Faults Found:
16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor
P0501 - 004 -Implausible Signal
18043 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1635 - 008 -Missing Message from A/C Controller
16455 -Sensor for Ambient Air Temperature (G17)
P0071 -004 - Implausible Signal
18331 -Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2
P1923 - 008 -
Readiness: 0110 1101

I replaced the crankshaft position sensor during the engine swap because it got broken and from what I have researched that may be driving the 16885 fault (the replacement sensor was from ebay and claimed compatibility) but I am going to replace with genuine part and see if it resolves the issue. Would a crankshaft sensor error prevent turn over?

Initial Start:

 

@Bently2004G_T ,
I just watched the video, may I ask what the noise is before the cranking of the engine, it almost sounds like someone pumping the gas pedal...

Just to note, the cranking sounds a bit weak, so I would verify full charge of both batteries, although, that is not your issue of failing to fire over.

As to the crankshaft position sensor, aka engine speed sensor (G28), please verify that the plug is firmly seated, but of more importance, verify that it is in the correct hole, as there are two holes in the bell housing to slide the sensor in, just as there are two threaded holes for the mounting of same, see my picture for the correct location.

As to your fault codes, 16885/P0501 has to do with the vehicle speed, possibly (G22) such as a wheel speed sensor, so this is not the issue of failure to fire either.

18331 / P1923 is telling you to check the fault codes in engine ecu number 2, found at address 11 with Ross-Tech, your information above shows that you haven't checked 11 - Engine II for faults, so please do, and post results.

Another item to check is fuel, be sure that as you approach the vehicle and grab the driver's door to open, that you hear the fuel pumps prime as you open the door, mine were not, which led to other issues, but they do now as all is working, it doesn't do it every time you open the door, only after the vehicle has gone to sleep, iirc.

Johnny

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@Johnny Hotspur GT I pumped the brake pedal, I had just finished bleeding the lines. I think I wanted to make sure the "compress brake" dash message went away before firing and ensure I had pressure in the pedal.

I do believe I hear the fuel pump initialize (attachment) it's faint in the video (better heard with headphones), but pretty pronounced when I approach/open the door. As for the Engine II reading:

2 Faults Found:
18043 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1635 - 008 - Missing Message from A/C Controller
16706 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0322 - 004 - No Signal

I confirmed the sensor itself is in the correct hole from the image provided. I am going to order and try the genuine part and see if that resolves the issue. Both batteries are a little low, I have them on charge now. Starter bolt in the engine compartment reads 13.2V and also tested well while I had the engine out.

I manually turned the engine a couple times (timing belt on) before installing, changed all spark plugs, but haven't turned manually since. Wondering if that would help build compression with sparkplugs installed now?

(Also probably worth mentioning I am using the original vehicle key as well).

 

Hello @Bently2004G_T ,
Sorry for the delayed response, I had a water heater let loose at my center...

Just for clarification, the W12 does not have a timing belt, it has chains at the rear of the engine, so I assume that your are speaking of the serpentine belt on the front that drives all accessories.

So, as Engine II shows the (G28) engine speed sensor as no signal, that's a definite no fire, BTDT, I would verify one more item if you would, as you swapped in an engine, did you have the matching transmission with it, I ask because this came up not too long ago, but it was dealing with a 2014 setup engine and transmission going in a 2015-16 iirc, the issue was the spacer between the engine and transmission, this person had to remove the spacer, which I still don't understand, the 2014 engine I had came with the spacer, just as did my 2005 original engine, the 2007 parts engine, the 2004 engine I still have, as did my 2011 Supersports engine transmission package, do you have the spacer as pictured in place, and would you mind pulling the sensor again to verify that the nose of the sensor is aligned with the timing holes in the flywheel ring, if no spacer, then the ring is back further, meaning the use of the other hole, which I don't really fully believe, as with no spacer, the torque converter would be jammed between the engine and transmission, as the neck of the torque converter can only go so far into the transmission, I just want to be sure of all possibilities.

Johnny

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Im quite interested how you did it.
Car lift in garage or DIY with Jack's etc ??

 

@Johnny Hotspur GT

Awesome, thank you for the confirmation. I will report back here when I receive the part and get it installed! As for the spacer (interesting, I had never heard this before?) I did install the space from the new engine (pictured below from the install), however, I used the original transmission that was in the car. I replaced the torque converter because I could not get it off of the old engine.

Looking at the alignment with the old sensor, it looks to be aligned with the timing holes in the flywheel ring- but I will verify again when installing the new sensor. Tracking says 4 days currently.

Fingers crossed!

 

Hi @Frank ( Sunnyside )

I went the jack and jack stand route! A car lift certainly would have made it a little easier, but in all honesty as long as you are comfortable safely operating manual jacks, it wasn't too bad.

I lifted the vehicle onto jack stands first and dropped the engine/trans package onto a scissor cart with a couple 2x6's positioned to support the weight adequately on the cart. Once it was resting on the cart I continued to lift the car body until there was clearance to walk the engine/trans out. I rented a pallet jack for the day to make moving the cart easier (the pallet forks fit on either side of the cart and allowed me to slightly lift and more easily maneuver) the engine unit to the other side of the garage where I disconnected the engine from trans with the engine hoist. Space got a little tight but between the cart, engine hoist and pallet jack I was able to easily move and place things where I need to. Attaching a few pictures for reference. This is the first engine swap I have ever done so I have moved cautiously, but it is very doable!

Once it is fully turning over and running I will post the full process (don't want to claim victory too soon).

 

Your an inspiration. I know @Johnny Hotspur GT done it that way but he is the guru
To see it done again that way really makes me feel happier about my race car project.
Thank you so much for posting
Any other advice or tricks that made the job easier. Any mistakes you wouldn't do next time??
Frank.

 

@Bently2004G_T
For a first time motor swap you have some Big "Cojones" Bro
I will be watching this closely when its posted up
Good luck and Hope all goes well for you
Greets from the UK
"Cojones"

 

@Johnny Hotspur GT happy to report, installed the correct sensor and the engine turned over and fired right up! Re scanned and there is no G28 engine speed sensor fault now either.

I broke a few of the exhaust flange studs when I was disconnecting the exhaust during the engine removal trying to loosen the bolts. I couldn't let the engine run very long because the exhaust was heavy as the pipes are not fully connected underneath.

Any tips on how to replace the flange studs? I have seen a couple videos about heating the flange or cutting a slot to release pressure around the stud and make it able to be hammered out.





Anyway- happy to finally hear that incredible W12 fire over!

 

@Bently2004G_T ,
Glad to hear she fired over !!

As to the exhaust flange studs, I didn't have any issues removing my original exhaust, as I had sprayed all threads with PB Blaster prior to removal, and my replacement AWE Supersports exhaust didn't have studs, it uses nuts and bolts, so, you could try some heat, or PB Blaster and bang them out from the front side, or drill them out if a drill will fit in that area, or just drop the center section for ease of working on it, and I wouldn't worry about putting studs back in, just use some good stainless steel nuts and bolts with good lock washers.

Or, just get yourself a nice center section to eliminate your secondary cats and resonators.

Johnny

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