I think they just look so bland now, and the agressiveness i liked about the e46 seems to have vanaished for a more smoothed out, boring look. just too bubbly for me. its funny because the m3 used a 3.2 liter inline 6 for over 10 years and now they cannot compete with the other car makers in market anymore. meanwhile, Porsche is still using the flat 6, which goes up minimally and is STILL outperforming the competition day in and day out. i feel like Porsche always looks at other angles. for instance, the 997 line has a better drag coefficient(.29 for the S and .28 for the non-S), they kept the same overall gear ratio, but changed around ratios withing the other gears, they gave it bigger tires, a lower stance, etc. all while only adding 30 hp over the 996 C2 to the 997S. i think a lot of companys, cough cough, bmw, fails to see other things that can make a car better besides sheer hp and bigger engines. they bloat their cars and add hp but do nothing for center of gravity, tires, cd, gears, etc.

 

I wasnt trying to be a d*ck so i hope it didnt come out that way. as you know tho, porsches have always had very broad, flat torque curves as well. i believe my c4 cab is prob around the same weight but maybe 20 lbs lighter, but my car runs mid 13s as does an m3 and at the same mph with that much less hp. but porsches have better drag coefficients as well as other things to its advantage.

 

that M3 V8 engine will be a MONSTER motor.... it's the M5 motor minus 2 cylinders.... I think there is no shortage of torque in that motor... the M3 will also be given a 7-speed SMG....!! so 7 shorter gears... each gear accelearating faster and allowing the driver to keep the power in the power band... that's gonna be one fast car... FASTER THAN A CARRERA S in the real world.... now also keep in mind that BMW is one for a long 1st gear so it's 0-60 time may not be reflective of what it can do in gears 2-6.. cause 7 is a highway gear (lol)...

it also has a carbon fibre roof which will probably keep the weight down... given the torque of the new V8 I can see this baby doing the 1/4 in 12.5 flat... maybe faster.. in any case... from a roll-on with a Carrera S.... I thin the new M3 will walk it.

 

It looks nice, but i dont think they will ever be able to reproduce a car like the e46 m3 (at least not in the looks department)

I driven 2005 e46 m3 with comp package, probably one of the best experiences in a car...

 

I dont agree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion. so you think it will be just as fast in ET as the new m5? i doubt it will trap any higher than 112. this has also been avg trap for a 997S which can trap as high as 115. Did you not see the video of the 997S beating the 400hp mode m5 and i think it also beat the m5 in 500 hp mode too. the video is on 6speed somewhere. i guess we will see when this car comes out though.

 

Just because I said this race was posted, here it is.

400 hp mode
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...782600697&q=m5

500 hp mode
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...288621231&q=m5

 

After seeing the videos I can say this much... the 400HP mode M5 is no match for the Carrera S because of the power/weight ratio differential...

but it's clear from the 2nd video where the M5 runs @ 500 HP that the M5 is much faster car as it takes a lot more to accelerate more mass but the M5 reels the "S" in no problem....

the M5 weights in very close to 4000 lbs... 4000 lbs/500hp = 8.1 lbs/hp

The carrera S weighs about 3200 lbs... 3200 lbs/355hp = 9 lbs/hp

Say the new m3 weights in @ 3500 lbs 3500 lbs/ 420 hp = 8.333

M3 wins... it won't have nearly as hard a time in initial acceleration as the M5 does...

from a roll-on M3 > "S"... from a standstill I'd still give it to the "S" till about 100 mph where the M3 should overtake because of it's sheer torque and hp...

physics don't lie... think about it this way... if your an M3 engineer your best knockout punch to sell the new M3 would be to make it each an "S" for lunch... all for $25K less!!!

we'll know next year for sure....

 

Agreed, his numbers are a little off. With that being said the 996 didn't get the hp bump till 02.

As for 996 vs M3. The statement 'any 996 carrera model will outperform an m3' is a pretty broad statement and theres not a lot of meat to back it up., weather you're talking straight line or road course. They're both great cars, and the Turbo/GT2/GT3 will rock an E46 M3. As for the others, it really depends a lot.

As far as the original topic. The new M3, regardless of what it looks like is going to be a performance monster, I just hope that the weight doesn't increase at all (but I could live with a few extra few lbs).

I'm second in line at my dealer and I can't wait.

-Adam

 

[quote=C70Pete]After seeing the videos I can say this much... the 400HP mode M5 is no match for the Carrera S because of the power/weight ratio differential...

but it's clear from the 2nd video where the M5 runs @ 500 HP that the M5 is much faster car as it takes a lot more to accelerate more mass but the M5 reels the "S" in no problem....

the M5 weights in very close to 4000 lbs... 4000 lbs/500hp = 8.1 lbs/hp

The carrera S weighs about 3200 lbs... 3200 lbs/355hp = 9 lbs/hp

Say the new m3 weights in @ 3500 lbs 3500 lbs/ 420 hp = 8.333

M3 wins... it won't have nearly as hard a time in initial acceleration as the M5 does...

from a roll-on M3 > "S"... from a standstill I'd still give it to the "S" till about 100 mph where the M3 should overtake because of it's sheer torque and hp...

yea, but the m5 wasnt starting to pull close until WAY over 100+ mph. plus you do not know where the 997S let off the accelerator. you also have to remember that while the smgs shift super fast, they are always slower than the manual transmission car. i think the sheer fact that the m3 will prob not trap higher than 112 mph give a clear adv to the 997S which has been known to trap at 113, 114, and 115 at times.
the new m3 will never eat a 997S. a 997S will eat an m3 at the track handiliy and the straight line will be close based on trap speeds. while physics dont lie, and i agree, neither do trap speeds. we def will see, but my money is on the 997S. i think the new m3 will prob be more around 3600 lbs. i doubt the torque will be all that high considering these factors. the m5 with the massive v10 only produces 383 lb/ft of tq, the f430 with its v8 only produces 343 lb/ft of tq with 483 hp. i highly doubt the m3s motor with 418 hp will produce more than 315-320 lb ft. either way, it doesnt look too promising for the new m3. the looks clearly arent there, and the results, we will see. again, its going to take A LOT to compete with the 997S.

 

Yeah I don't think the new M3 will trap as fast as the M5, but I don't think that it will be much more than 1 or 2 mph slower.

-Adam

 

It's ugly and probably going to weigh 3800 lbs. No thanks.

 

It's not going to weigh 3800lbs.

-Adam

 

I think it will trap 110-111, but 112 at best. Therefore, i think the 997S, which me and c70pete were discussing, will be able to top is, because they have trapped as high as 115, which is right around what the m5 traps, which is why in the video above, the 997S was able to pull quite a lot on the m5 in both 400 and 500 hp modes(granted it had headers, sport cats, and exhaust, which give it 39 crank hp giving it 394 at the crank, which is still 109 hp less than the m5, although it weights 600+ lbs less). it still pulled and thats all I care about. we can go into semantics in a number of ways, but either way the m5 lost to the 997S in both races.

 

I bet you a fully loaded m3 coupe will weigh in at about 3600-3700 lbs.

 

I'm not arguing with you about M5 vs 997s. I just wanted to toss in my opinion regarding M5 vs M3, like I said, BMW has a habit of making sure the M3 isn't as fast as the M5, particularly as the speedo moves up.

I don't think it will be as fast as the 997s, but it's base price is also going to be almost 30k less. I do think it will be faster than a base 997.

-Adam