Weight Reduction
#1
Weight Reduction
Has any one thought of any creative ideas to reduce the weight of the Cayenne. The biggest advantage that the Jeep SRT8 has over the Cayenne at the drag strip is weight. It weighs about 1,000 LBS less!
I'll never take this off-road and I'd like to prepare it for some 1/4 mile runs this spring. Much of the weight is due to it's off-road ability such as a transfer case, etc. I wish there was any easy way to ditch some of this drivetrain. A drivetrain similar to the 999tt, without a transfer case, would be perfect.
I'm also still looking at tranny upgrades. The upgrades out of Germany are about $15k+. Has anyone looked into a domestic source? A company called levelten claims that they can perform the upgrade for $6k but I've heard mixed reviews on this company.
Any help or creative ideas would be greatly appreciated. I hope that you all had a Merry Christmas.
I'll never take this off-road and I'd like to prepare it for some 1/4 mile runs this spring. Much of the weight is due to it's off-road ability such as a transfer case, etc. I wish there was any easy way to ditch some of this drivetrain. A drivetrain similar to the 999tt, without a transfer case, would be perfect.
I'm also still looking at tranny upgrades. The upgrades out of Germany are about $15k+. Has anyone looked into a domestic source? A company called levelten claims that they can perform the upgrade for $6k but I've heard mixed reviews on this company.
Any help or creative ideas would be greatly appreciated. I hope that you all had a Merry Christmas.
#3
Originally Posted by fafnir
you NEED your transfer case
without it your car won't run
e.g. engine - tranny - transfer case - driveshaft - diffs - axles - hubs - wheels
you can't just "unbolt" something and expect it to run
e.g. maybe the transmission is just dead weight i don't need it
no, all of it is needed and i would not be surprised if the transfer case was part of the transmission in the car
anyone have a diagram or shop manual to confirm?
if its really drag speed that you're after weight reduction in this car may not be the best of ideas
e.g. first all the seats, then all the trim pieces, then the dash, then the carpeting, then the soundproofing, then polycarb windows, then carbon hoods/doors/stuff, then excess electrical stuff like lights and wipers and stuff
then i bet the air suspension is just dead weight too, might wanna use coilovers
you proally don't need swaybars
and why bother comparing against a SRT8 GC if he was missing out on most of the good stuff anyways?
_
without it your car won't run
e.g. engine - tranny - transfer case - driveshaft - diffs - axles - hubs - wheels
you can't just "unbolt" something and expect it to run
e.g. maybe the transmission is just dead weight i don't need it
no, all of it is needed and i would not be surprised if the transfer case was part of the transmission in the car
anyone have a diagram or shop manual to confirm?
if its really drag speed that you're after weight reduction in this car may not be the best of ideas
e.g. first all the seats, then all the trim pieces, then the dash, then the carpeting, then the soundproofing, then polycarb windows, then carbon hoods/doors/stuff, then excess electrical stuff like lights and wipers and stuff
then i bet the air suspension is just dead weight too, might wanna use coilovers
you proally don't need swaybars
and why bother comparing against a SRT8 GC if he was missing out on most of the good stuff anyways?
_
The weight savings of stripping the interior,as a percentage of total weight, doesn't cut it in this case. This extra weight in this car is mostly due to the drivetrain which is engineered for off road use. I will never take this truck off road so I've been trying to think of creative ways to loose this capability and save some significant weight. I realize that you can't just "unbolt" something. But I do wonder if it isn't possible to transplant a drivetrain similar to that of a 996tt.
The comparison to the SRT8 is very valid. Jeep built this truck knowing that it would,'t go off road and they saved a tremendous amount of weight by doing so. However, I much prefer the Cayenne.
Try to understand that I'm not trying to buld something that is practical or makes any sense. I'm trying to have some fun. I've owned many high horse power drag cars, the quickest running the 1/4 mile in the 9's. Anyone can build a fast 996tt, GT2, Mustang, Corvette, AMG, etc. Building an 11 second Cayenne is going to take some creativity. That's the part that I enjoy!
Here was my effort to make a 4 banger run a huge turbo at altitude (I live in Colorado) without lag. This "twin charged' system took 18 months to design and build:
http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif
We ran in the 10's with this car, it made 700awhp and had almost no lag. However, it would have been cheaper to build a GT700 911tt! But it sure was fun!
Last edited by Evo650; 12-30-2006 at 12:44 PM.
#5
Originally Posted by Bert Smith Moto
More info on the Evo please?
-Built 2.0L with 10,000 rpm rev limit
-Holset Hx50 Turbo making 40 psi
-Autoroto supercharger (Kleemann desing) built to make 15 psi
-Liquid to air intercooler system (The A/C compressor was used to supercool the liquid, remember the Ford Lightning prototype that was never built?)
-Dog Box tranny with sequential shifter
-Tilton triple carbon clutch
-Upgrade half shafts
-Roll cage, forged aluminum wheels, Autronic standalone, etc., etc.
The car took 18 months to design and build. The supercharger would disengage once the turbo was suffeciently spooled reducing parasitic loss. The dog box was custom built by Hollinger and was very streetable (for a dog box).
The car had very little lag and was capable of making about 800 driveable HP. The bypass (twin charge) system was unlike anything that's ever been developed. As fas as I know it's the highest HP twin charged car ever built. It was built by www.union7.net with some help from the guys at Kleemann.
It was a great project. There are far easier and less expensive ways to make HP but the car was truely one of a kind. We consistently ran in the mid 10's. It could have gone faster but it wasn't strictly built as a drag car.
#6
Originally Posted by fafnir
all the stuff i listed was reversible, somewhat
if you're really commited, yes, the transfer case can be removed
along with the front and central diffs
possibly a custom housing unit /cover must be fabricated
on a jeep, removal of the transfer case, adapted through with a longer driveshaft and another cv joint drops ~450 lbs
and the center diff maybe another 50-100 lbs, with housing unit
and therefore the front driveshaft(s) and front diff and front axles are also dead weight since there is no power going to them anymore
so you're supposed to end up with just the two front hubs supporting the front wheels
on a live axle jeep setup the front axles and diff and shaft weights ~500lbs using a dana 60 - though they can not be removed due to the live axle
i don't know how much weight you'll lose on independant suspension though
you'll need something to passify the abs sensors as they feed the traction control/psm, which also proally has to be passified
i don't know what the trans looks like but the ecu is closely integrated with psm, dunno how the shifting will work
also its an autobox, dunno about shift times and what kind of torque it'll support (aka limiting extreme boost) and if there are actually standalone ecu's for the engine anyways, which again limits boost
and then there's the fuel supply, how the pump is controled and if thats integrated too
_
if you're really commited, yes, the transfer case can be removed
along with the front and central diffs
possibly a custom housing unit /cover must be fabricated
on a jeep, removal of the transfer case, adapted through with a longer driveshaft and another cv joint drops ~450 lbs
and the center diff maybe another 50-100 lbs, with housing unit
and therefore the front driveshaft(s) and front diff and front axles are also dead weight since there is no power going to them anymore
so you're supposed to end up with just the two front hubs supporting the front wheels
on a live axle jeep setup the front axles and diff and shaft weights ~500lbs using a dana 60 - though they can not be removed due to the live axle
i don't know how much weight you'll lose on independant suspension though
you'll need something to passify the abs sensors as they feed the traction control/psm, which also proally has to be passified
i don't know what the trans looks like but the ecu is closely integrated with psm, dunno how the shifting will work
also its an autobox, dunno about shift times and what kind of torque it'll support (aka limiting extreme boost) and if there are actually standalone ecu's for the engine anyways, which again limits boost
and then there's the fuel supply, how the pump is controled and if thats integrated too
_
This may not be possible or worth doing but it might be fun trying.
#7
Evo650 you may have an 11.99 second truck the way you're sitting. 658 Ft Lbs of torque will easily move 5,000 lbs through the 1/4 mile...
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#8
Originally Posted by fafnir
have you ever seen this?
http://burnsvilleoffroad.com/Articles/05_11_06c.aspx
*only* 120k usd fully loaded
makes the srt8 GC look like trash
does 0-60, 1/4 mile, and rock crawling better than a SRT GC
but then costs almost 3 times as much
if its really a jeep that you're looking for, i think this is a better bet than the SRT GC
_
http://burnsvilleoffroad.com/Articles/05_11_06c.aspx
*only* 120k usd fully loaded
makes the srt8 GC look like trash
does 0-60, 1/4 mile, and rock crawling better than a SRT GC
but then costs almost 3 times as much
if its really a jeep that you're looking for, i think this is a better bet than the SRT GC
_
My only complaint is the lack of power. Avenger superchargers is right here in Colorado Springs and, once their kit is ready, I'm dropping the Jeep off for some mods.
Thanks for the pictures. Burnsville makes some wild stuff.
#9
Originally Posted by Turbo955
Evo650 you may have an 11.99 second truck the way you're sitting. 658 Ft Lbs of torque will easily move 5,000 lbs through the 1/4 mile...
#10
As far as electronics, the trans has its own stand alone ECU, the engine has its own ECU, and PSM has its own as well. The speed sensors at the wheels are integral to the wheel bearings, which is why it messes everything up if one gets installed backwards. The only unknown would be getting the power from the rear of the trans to the rear diff if the t-case was removed.
#11
If no one else is in the car do we need the other seats and doors? Just shrink wrap the car to prevent the drag uou would get without the doors- it's light and cheap!
#12
Originally Posted by BobbySpeed
If no one else is in the car do we need the other seats and doors? Just shrink wrap the car to prevent the drag uou would get without the doors- it's light and cheap!
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