Snapped Camshaft Adjuster Bolt = Engine & Brake Hydraulics Failure ?
#196
09-01-2016, 01:39 PM
Registered User
SWMBO (She who must be obeyed..) has an aversion to flying, so we take month long trips coast-2-coast-2-coast. While I'd prefer doing it on 2 wheels, that isn't possible if SWMBO is coming along. Last time we did it together was in her Lexus RX-350 - which I had a lot of trouble staying awake in. It's a deadly boring car to drive. So if we do it again - it will be with the CTT.
Didn't want the "what am I gonna do..?" worry, so this avoids it. The CTT seems fairly bulletproof aside from this problem, so I'm eliminating it before it happens. If Porsche is coaxed into a recall on the rest of the engines with aluminum bolts - I'll end up being reimbursed.
Interesting side note - I was browsing the NHTSA database on 2011 Porsche vehicles. There are about 3-4 reports of this failure on the Cayenne. There are MANY more reports on the Panamera. Either more people own Panamera's (very unlikely since the Cayenne is Porsche's biggest seller), or they are more knowledgeable about reporting this sort of incident. Whatever - I know there are more Cayennes that have suffered the failure, and I'd ask that people spend the few minutes it takes to report the failure.
One other interesting thing - at least two people on the Panamera side had "assistance" from Porsche on their engine replacement (it didn't sound like it was 100% though..) and they noted that Porsche asked them verbally to not discuss it on social media.
One person from NJ collected from their aftermarket warranty - who apparently decided it wasn't financially sound to repair the car - so they declared it a "total" and paid the person for the car. Cost of a replacement engine would have been $33,000 and no help was forthcoming from Porsche. Betcha' that company will not be offering aftermarket warranties for Porsches again.
#197
09-01-2016, 01:50 PM
Registered User
BTW - ever wonder why the claim by Porsche that it was defective bolts, not defective engineering in selecting to use those bolts is being made?
Aside from admitting that defective engineering occurred when they chose to use aluminum bolts would mean ALL with them should have them replaced.. a friend who was rather high up in BMW explained how German engineers think..
They are never wrong.
If you accept that's how they're thinking - then admitting that an engineering mistake happened would mean disrespecting someone in the company's engineering expertise. They simply don't do that.
One difference between BMW and Porsche - if this happened at BMW - they would still be selling the identical part with the aluminum bolts. They only rarely make a change to a part to solve a problem. They typically just continue selling it - after all - the engineer who designed it designed a perfect product. VANOS bolts on the S54 engines (a direct parallel to this Variocam problem) - they still sell the same identical bolts. None of the VANOS parts have been revised - despite some independent engineering studies showing the problem is caused by a bad design. At least Porsche went back to steel bolts. By doing that they've admitted an engineering failure - even if they blame it on defective bolts to save face for the engineer (and limit the number of vehicles they have to include in the Workshop Campaign.)
You'd think with DieselGate - they'd come to realize hiding the problem and claiming there is no problem just isn't going to work anymore. There are too many savvy people out there to accept the face-saving stuff VW/Porsche is putting out..
Aside from admitting that defective engineering occurred when they chose to use aluminum bolts would mean ALL with them should have them replaced.. a friend who was rather high up in BMW explained how German engineers think..
They are never wrong.
If you accept that's how they're thinking - then admitting that an engineering mistake happened would mean disrespecting someone in the company's engineering expertise. They simply don't do that.
One difference between BMW and Porsche - if this happened at BMW - they would still be selling the identical part with the aluminum bolts. They only rarely make a change to a part to solve a problem. They typically just continue selling it - after all - the engineer who designed it designed a perfect product. VANOS bolts on the S54 engines (a direct parallel to this Variocam problem) - they still sell the same identical bolts. None of the VANOS parts have been revised - despite some independent engineering studies showing the problem is caused by a bad design. At least Porsche went back to steel bolts. By doing that they've admitted an engineering failure - even if they blame it on defective bolts to save face for the engineer (and limit the number of vehicles they have to include in the Workshop Campaign.)
You'd think with DieselGate - they'd come to realize hiding the problem and claiming there is no problem just isn't going to work anymore. There are too many savvy people out there to accept the face-saving stuff VW/Porsche is putting out..
Last edited by deilenberger; 09-01-2016 at 01:53 PM.
#198
09-01-2016, 05:50 PM
I also have an extended warranty - but that doesn't help with one worry - if traveling using the CTT in more remote areas (US and/or Canada) - and it crapped the bed - what'cha gonna do?
SWMBO (She who must be obeyed..) has an aversion to flying, so we take month long trips coast-2-coast-2-coast. While I'd prefer doing it on 2 wheels, that isn't possible if SWMBO is coming along. Last time we did it together was in her Lexus RX-350 - which I had a lot of trouble staying awake in. It's a deadly boring car to drive. So if we do it again - it will be with the CTT.
Didn't want the "what am I gonna do..?" worry, so this avoids it. The CTT seems fairly bulletproof aside from this problem, so I'm eliminating it before it happens. If Porsche is coaxed into a recall on the rest of the engines with aluminum bolts - I'll end up being reimbursed.
Interesting side note - I was browsing the NHTSA database on 2011 Porsche vehicles. There are about 3-4 reports of this failure on the Cayenne. There are MANY more reports on the Panamera. Either more people own Panamera's (very unlikely since the Cayenne is Porsche's biggest seller), or they are more knowledgeable about reporting this sort of incident. Whatever - I know there are more Cayennes that have suffered the failure, and I'd ask that people spend the few minutes it takes to report the failure.
One other interesting thing - at least two people on the Panamera side had "assistance" from Porsche on their engine replacement (it didn't sound like it was 100% though..) and they noted that Porsche asked them verbally to not discuss it on social media.
One person from NJ collected from their aftermarket warranty - who apparently decided it wasn't financially sound to repair the car - so they declared it a "total" and paid the person for the car. Cost of a replacement engine would have been $33,000 and no help was forthcoming from Porsche. Betcha' that company will not be offering aftermarket warranties for Porsches again.
SWMBO (She who must be obeyed..) has an aversion to flying, so we take month long trips coast-2-coast-2-coast. While I'd prefer doing it on 2 wheels, that isn't possible if SWMBO is coming along. Last time we did it together was in her Lexus RX-350 - which I had a lot of trouble staying awake in. It's a deadly boring car to drive. So if we do it again - it will be with the CTT.
Didn't want the "what am I gonna do..?" worry, so this avoids it. The CTT seems fairly bulletproof aside from this problem, so I'm eliminating it before it happens. If Porsche is coaxed into a recall on the rest of the engines with aluminum bolts - I'll end up being reimbursed.
Interesting side note - I was browsing the NHTSA database on 2011 Porsche vehicles. There are about 3-4 reports of this failure on the Cayenne. There are MANY more reports on the Panamera. Either more people own Panamera's (very unlikely since the Cayenne is Porsche's biggest seller), or they are more knowledgeable about reporting this sort of incident. Whatever - I know there are more Cayennes that have suffered the failure, and I'd ask that people spend the few minutes it takes to report the failure.
One other interesting thing - at least two people on the Panamera side had "assistance" from Porsche on their engine replacement (it didn't sound like it was 100% though..) and they noted that Porsche asked them verbally to not discuss it on social media.
One person from NJ collected from their aftermarket warranty - who apparently decided it wasn't financially sound to repair the car - so they declared it a "total" and paid the person for the car. Cost of a replacement engine would have been $33,000 and no help was forthcoming from Porsche. Betcha' that company will not be offering aftermarket warranties for Porsches again.
I'll have to check my warranty docs on what happens if the repair is worth more than the car. I know from talking to a friend who's familiar with this stuff, he said my comprehensive car insurance would cover the car since it's in a way totaled.
I'll check out the NHTSA for any 2012 model's. The thing aboutt the warranty I got, it has a money back guarantee so if I don't use it, I'll get the bolts replaced with the money I get back.
Last edited by sterz; 09-01-2016 at 05:57 PM.
#199
09-08-2016, 12:03 PM
I was scaning the car today to clear cel code from catless exhaust (panamera turbo) and I found p0021 on it , which is camshaft position over advance .Car feels Ok , I race it quite a lot . what do you guys think it is , problem from the remap in which the car stored in the memory , maybe a bad battery , because have been siting for months or maybe the bolts are starting to fail ? did you guys have the part number for the bolts ?
#200
09-08-2016, 01:24 PM
it it neccesary to replace just the bolt , or all the part that contains the 4 bolts ? I am afraid of possible bent valves o.O . finger crossed for tomorrow
#201
09-08-2016, 01:55 PM
Also found these information : P0011 is the camshaft error for Bank 1; P0021 is the camshaft error for Bank 2. You can search for those codes here or on Renntech.org. One of the Porsche techs who frequents Renntech.org has commented that P0021 is very common on the V8 engines, and his experience is it's due to a very slight extension in the timing chain and the sensor tolerance is very low.
I usually find P0021 when I do a Durametric scan. My dealer has said the same thing about this code that your dealer said about P0011 - i.e., usually due to dirty oil. I don't go too long between oil changes, however. It's never caused a CEL, and my dealer says not to worry about it.
I usually find P0021 when I do a Durametric scan. My dealer has said the same thing about this code that your dealer said about P0011 - i.e., usually due to dirty oil. I don't go too long between oil changes, however. It's never caused a CEL, and my dealer says not to worry about it.
#202
09-08-2016, 02:05 PM
The bolts itself do not come as individual parts but rather a a combo with the adjusters... You'll need to buy 2 camshaft adjusters to replace the 2 bad ones.
#203
09-08-2016, 02:06 PM
Also found these information : P0011 is the camshaft error for Bank 1; P0021 is the camshaft error for Bank 2. You can search for those codes here or on Renntech.org. One of the Porsche techs who frequents Renntech.org has commented that P0021 is very common on the V8 engines, and his experience is it's due to a very slight extension in the timing chain and the sensor tolerance is very low. I usually find P0021 when I do a Durametric scan. My dealer has said the same thing about this code that your dealer said about P0011 - i.e., usually due to dirty oil. I don't go too long between oil changes, however. It's never caused a CEL, and my dealer says not to worry about it.
#205
09-08-2016, 03:47 PM
I talked to my tech but he says he needs more answers. He's asking for what the code says. Ask you tech for the description they get from the code...
#206
09-08-2016, 08:29 PM
i have also for coalant sensor and throttlebody.Maybe its from battery
#208
09-17-2016, 10:56 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: (in my garage welding something vicious)
Posts: 1,505
Rep Power: 103 
I have read enough for me to believe this is a serious issue for at least the 2010-2011 V8 engines. Making this a sticky..
#209
09-18-2016, 06:44 PM
Registered User
I know it might be difficult - but a merge of these this thread with https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-failure.html might bring all the discussion about this problem under one thread.
And perhaps that thread should be located in the Cayenne 958 subforum - since it's not only the Turbos that suffer this fate - it's any 958 V8 from late 2010-2011.
And perhaps that thread should be located in the Cayenne 958 subforum - since it's not only the Turbos that suffer this fate - it's any 958 V8 from late 2010-2011.
#210
09-18-2016, 08:19 PM
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: (in my garage welding something vicious)
Posts: 1,505
Rep Power: 103 I know it might be difficult - but a merge of these this thread with https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-failure.html might bring all the discussion about this problem under one thread.
And perhaps that thread should be located in the Cayenne 958 subforum - since it's not only the Turbos that suffer this fate - it's any 958 V8 from late 2010-2011.
And perhaps that thread should be located in the Cayenne 958 subforum - since it's not only the Turbos that suffer this fate - it's any 958 V8 from late 2010-2011.
Edit: Thread moved to Cayenne 958 and merged with other camshaft issue thread on same topic.
Last edited by Renaissance.Man; 09-18-2016 at 08:28 PM.