Joined the club :-)
Joined the club :-)
I bought a 2011 CTT earlier this month and finally had a chance to drive it a lot this weekend. I'm a long-time SUV-hater, and got CTT only because 1) I need to haul stuff (babies, skies, bikes, etc); 2) no matter how many times I move, I somehow end up in a place where roads are made by mentally challenged people (I can get air without breaking speed limit!) Was going to get e63 wagon, but suspension travel just was not enough - it was rougher than my M3, and bottomed out during a very mild test-drive.
Anyway, got a nice low-mile CPO specimen with PDCC and PTV+ (wanted those for ride and handling) and a bunch of comfort options, and it's 90% love and 10% disappointment. One thing that I do not know what do about is that the car came with wrong wheels - the dealer listed it as 20" Spyder wheels, but it came with 22" aftermarket wheels. I looked them up, and they are hi-end forged stuff, more expensive than Porsche 20", and I really like the look, but 22" is not what was going for given the roads I need to drive... Not sure what to do now - raise an issue with seller, just sell them and buy 20" or leave as is.
Anyway, everything else looks great so far, and here are my impressions (using e90 M3 with track specific mods as reference, so slightly skewed):
Pros:
1. Drives like a car - sharper steering and faster weight transfer than in most family sedans. PDCC is magical - no lean in turns, but suspension absorbs everything. In turns feels lower and lighter than it actually is.
2. Interior is very durable, as it should be in SUV, but that's not typical of high-end cars with soft leather surfaces.
3. Spacious. All reviews say that it's one of the least spacious in the class. I think they are fooled by tightly bolstered seats that make it feel like you are stuffed in a sports car. In practical use it's just as spacious as X5, just not as "empty", and feels like it has more useable space than Q7.
4. Does not feel as heavy as it is! Magic. I drove Charger SRT recently, and that felt heavier. Same with height - feels lower.
5. Air suspension is pretty cool. So far I only used lowering settings, but lowering, especially for loading heavy stuff is indeed handy.
6. Automatic start-stop works awesomely for everything except stop signs. On traffic lights it's practically invisible. Small thing, but in other cars I tried it was not as smooth. On stop signs it sometimes leads to lurching. No wonder - Stop signs everywhere are exclusively a North American thing.
7. Comfort/normal/sport switch makes a very big difference - love it, can adjust the car to my needs at the time - from making sure the baby stays asleep to blasting up and down the mountains as if it's a GTR :-)
Now the not so good stuff (remember I'm comparing to a very sporty sedan):
1. LAG... I am surprised how laggy it is. It's laggier than X5M! I did not expect that. Also, transmission is a bit slower than DCT (or PDK), so I had the following issue happen - I need to accelerate just a bit, so I give it a little bit of throttle, nothing happens because of lag, so subconsciously I give it a bit more, and that triggers a downshift now adding another delay, so I give it a bit more again, and then it shoots forward. It's possible to adjust driving style and avoid that, but I wish I did not need to. I guess I need to explore some mods for that...
2. Nose moving up and down. Side to side motion is extremely well-controlled, but back-and-forth is still rather SUV-like. Strange. Reminds me a bit of older 911 - one of the reasons I never wanted one until 991 fixed it.
3. Tire noise is very noticeable. Maybe it's the tires (Yokohama Parada, brand new).
4. Brakes are excellent in general - solid pedal, progressive feel. THere are couple quirks though - first, the pedal has some movement without any effect or any resistance, and then it's rock-solid; second, on release it's like it's sticking a bit, like lifting a foot after stepping on a chewing gum. Both minor things, just weird.
5. Stability control interferes strangely. For example, when an outside rear wheel got bumped up in the air by broken pavement in a high-speed turn close to the limit, instead of just sliding the rear out a bit (like a car with stability control off would do) or sliding rear a tiny amount and cutting power a bit (like a car with stability control on would do), it started shifting the rear right to left very quickly, like a very excited small dog wagging it's tail. So if I tried to correct the slide normally, I'd make it worse. Looks like it's not designed to work with the driver, like stability control in sporty cars, but rather instead of the driver, even at low limits. Understandable. THat's exactly what I want to happen when my wife drives it :-).
6. Finally, what's the story with the roof rails? Brief search told me that if there are no rails, they cannot be installed. I hope I misunderstood something. Let's say I want to install a ski rack - is that true that I cannot get one installed that would not scratch the roof?
Anyway, very happy with the car so far!
Anyway, got a nice low-mile CPO specimen with PDCC and PTV+ (wanted those for ride and handling) and a bunch of comfort options, and it's 90% love and 10% disappointment. One thing that I do not know what do about is that the car came with wrong wheels - the dealer listed it as 20" Spyder wheels, but it came with 22" aftermarket wheels. I looked them up, and they are hi-end forged stuff, more expensive than Porsche 20", and I really like the look, but 22" is not what was going for given the roads I need to drive... Not sure what to do now - raise an issue with seller, just sell them and buy 20" or leave as is.
Anyway, everything else looks great so far, and here are my impressions (using e90 M3 with track specific mods as reference, so slightly skewed):
Pros:
1. Drives like a car - sharper steering and faster weight transfer than in most family sedans. PDCC is magical - no lean in turns, but suspension absorbs everything. In turns feels lower and lighter than it actually is.
2. Interior is very durable, as it should be in SUV, but that's not typical of high-end cars with soft leather surfaces.
3. Spacious. All reviews say that it's one of the least spacious in the class. I think they are fooled by tightly bolstered seats that make it feel like you are stuffed in a sports car. In practical use it's just as spacious as X5, just not as "empty", and feels like it has more useable space than Q7.
4. Does not feel as heavy as it is! Magic. I drove Charger SRT recently, and that felt heavier. Same with height - feels lower.
5. Air suspension is pretty cool. So far I only used lowering settings, but lowering, especially for loading heavy stuff is indeed handy.
6. Automatic start-stop works awesomely for everything except stop signs. On traffic lights it's practically invisible. Small thing, but in other cars I tried it was not as smooth. On stop signs it sometimes leads to lurching. No wonder - Stop signs everywhere are exclusively a North American thing.
7. Comfort/normal/sport switch makes a very big difference - love it, can adjust the car to my needs at the time - from making sure the baby stays asleep to blasting up and down the mountains as if it's a GTR :-)
Now the not so good stuff (remember I'm comparing to a very sporty sedan):
1. LAG... I am surprised how laggy it is. It's laggier than X5M! I did not expect that. Also, transmission is a bit slower than DCT (or PDK), so I had the following issue happen - I need to accelerate just a bit, so I give it a little bit of throttle, nothing happens because of lag, so subconsciously I give it a bit more, and that triggers a downshift now adding another delay, so I give it a bit more again, and then it shoots forward. It's possible to adjust driving style and avoid that, but I wish I did not need to. I guess I need to explore some mods for that...
2. Nose moving up and down. Side to side motion is extremely well-controlled, but back-and-forth is still rather SUV-like. Strange. Reminds me a bit of older 911 - one of the reasons I never wanted one until 991 fixed it.
3. Tire noise is very noticeable. Maybe it's the tires (Yokohama Parada, brand new).
4. Brakes are excellent in general - solid pedal, progressive feel. THere are couple quirks though - first, the pedal has some movement without any effect or any resistance, and then it's rock-solid; second, on release it's like it's sticking a bit, like lifting a foot after stepping on a chewing gum. Both minor things, just weird.
5. Stability control interferes strangely. For example, when an outside rear wheel got bumped up in the air by broken pavement in a high-speed turn close to the limit, instead of just sliding the rear out a bit (like a car with stability control off would do) or sliding rear a tiny amount and cutting power a bit (like a car with stability control on would do), it started shifting the rear right to left very quickly, like a very excited small dog wagging it's tail. So if I tried to correct the slide normally, I'd make it worse. Looks like it's not designed to work with the driver, like stability control in sporty cars, but rather instead of the driver, even at low limits. Understandable. THat's exactly what I want to happen when my wife drives it :-).
6. Finally, what's the story with the roof rails? Brief search told me that if there are no rails, they cannot be installed. I hope I misunderstood something. Let's say I want to install a ski rack - is that true that I cannot get one installed that would not scratch the roof?
Anyway, very happy with the car so far!
Last edited by MaxLTV; Oct 21, 2013 at 06:09 PM.
Congrats on the purchase..post a pic and im sure someone could work something out with you to swap wheels if you so chose.
My 21s have the yoko's also, and i also feel like they are a touch noisy.
My 21s have the yoko's also, and i also feel like they are a touch noisy.
About the space, it sucks. Compared to the X5 the issue is the slope on the d-pillar. It cuts out a ton of vertical space. The rear seats also don't fold flat (a common stupid design in SUVs these days). I had more usable space in my 04 Ford Escape even though (iirc) it had between 5-10 cubic feet less. That's one of my few complaints (POS PCM being the other main one). In the Escape I could throw all 3 50lb dogs in the back with the seats up an they were fine for short trips. In the Cayenne even one isn't comfortable as they can't stand up.
On the traction control, if you want to get aggressive then you need to turn it off. All traction control systems are meant to prevent you from getting to the edge of the situation (because most people can't handle it). What shocked me when I ran mine through an AutoX was that you can actually drift the thing. It was quite a shock to find oversteer in an AWD vehicle.
Yes you are screwed on the roof rails. Your only safe option is a gutter mount system. No reason, however, that it should mess up your paint as long as you take care of it properly (clean the mount area before installation and don't leave it installed when you aren't using it).
On the traction control, if you want to get aggressive then you need to turn it off. All traction control systems are meant to prevent you from getting to the edge of the situation (because most people can't handle it). What shocked me when I ran mine through an AutoX was that you can actually drift the thing. It was quite a shock to find oversteer in an AWD vehicle.
Yes you are screwed on the roof rails. Your only safe option is a gutter mount system. No reason, however, that it should mess up your paint as long as you take care of it properly (clean the mount area before installation and don't leave it installed when you aren't using it).
About the space, it sucks. Compared to the X5 the issue is the slope on the d-pillar. It cuts out a ton of vertical space. The rear seats also don't fold flat (a common stupid design in SUVs these days). I had more usable space in my 04 Ford Escape even though (iirc) it had between 5-10 cubic feet less. That's one of my few complaints (POS PCM being the other main one). In the Escape I could throw all 3 50lb dogs in the back with the seats up an they were fine for short trips. In the Cayenne even one isn't comfortable as they can't stand up.
On the traction control, if you want to get aggressive then you need to turn it off. All traction control systems are meant to prevent you from getting to the edge of the situation (because most people can't handle it). What shocked me when I ran mine through an AutoX was that you can actually drift the thing. It was quite a shock to find oversteer in an AWD vehicle.
Yes you are screwed on the roof rails. Your only safe option is a gutter mount system. No reason, however, that it should mess up your paint as long as you take care of it properly (clean the mount area before installation and don't leave it installed when you aren't using it).
On the traction control, if you want to get aggressive then you need to turn it off. All traction control systems are meant to prevent you from getting to the edge of the situation (because most people can't handle it). What shocked me when I ran mine through an AutoX was that you can actually drift the thing. It was quite a shock to find oversteer in an AWD vehicle.
Yes you are screwed on the roof rails. Your only safe option is a gutter mount system. No reason, however, that it should mess up your paint as long as you take care of it properly (clean the mount area before installation and don't leave it installed when you aren't using it).
Yes, I also find PCM completely backwards and dated. So much worse than BMW iDrive, which everyone likes to moan about. Not a big deal to me, just another "WTF, Why???" thing. I wonder if they are going to improve it for 2014/2015 - I have a GT3 on order

I'll research gutter mount systems. I do not need to put much weight there anyway - 3-4 sets of skies or couple of bikes.
Thule and Yakima are both strong brands and have options for the 958. The big draw back over the factory system is the weight capacity, but that shouldn't be an issue for what you are talking about.
I think 2 things are contributing to tire nose. The tires itself and the fact they are 22's. I would change the tires out to Michelin Diamaris since the Latitudes don't come in 22's but the sure bet would be to go to OEM 20's with stock Michelin Latitudes. I've done both. I have 22's now and had the stock 20's before. The stockers ride much more comfortable with noticeably less tire noise.
Regarding the lag in the tranny- Have you tried the transmission in sport mode?
Regarding the lag in the tranny- Have you tried the transmission in sport mode?
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