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We're looking for either a 2008-10 957 or 2011-14 958 Cayenne S with the normally aspirated V8 & without the air suspension to serve as a tow vehicle & extra car & for fun Porsche/PCA stuff.
I initially - & apparently wrongly - assumed that the 958 would represent another step forward in improving the model, just as did the 957 over the 955 (i.e.: fixed the 955 coolant pipe, headlamps unit overheating & rear hatch strut access/replacement expense issues).
Then I got tipped off by another 958 owner about their cam adjuster bolt snapping & transfer case issues! ... talk about a couple of grenades built into the cars!!
If PCNA/PAG reps are reading this - I really would NOT be as concerned - IF Porsche actually stepped up & fixed these issues on Cayennes & other P-cars remedially - rather tha ignoring them in the hopes that the owners get stuck with very expensive post failure post-warranty/CPO repairs. You also need to stop building so dang many Black friggin Cays, & put back-up mirrors in EVERY one - not wait until forced to do so! After all - your supposed to be a Premium car company - not some off brand!
OK - I'm done venting! ... now to my Title Question for you Cayenne owners out there:
What are the relative Pros & Cons between the 957 & 958 series V8s specifically?
- & anything else also common to the V6, TDI & CTT etc. sub-models between 957 & 958?
And for more info on what we're looking for in a 957 or 958 CS in your responses, &/or if you're wanting to contact me with your CS for sale ....
We're looking for a nice & well cared for 2008-14 Cayenne S, as follows:
> 1-2 owners +/-,
> With Low Miles - i.e.: <60,000 +/- miles, preferably much less
> Properly Maintained, with Service Records & All Keys & Documents,
> With the normally aspirated V8,
> Without Air Suspension (will consider a GTS without Air Suspension/Delete Option - if any were ever made that way),
> Prefer Paint Colors in Blue, Grey, Silver, Tan/Gold/Jarama/Umber Metallics, White, etc.
.... & will consider other colors - but NOT Black,
> Prefer Interior in Tan, Grey, Brown, combos (will consider Black interior),
> Prefer equipped with Factory Tow Option/Hitch & Factory Back-up/Reversing Camera,
.... or I can add a factory hitch &/or aftermarket camera if CayS priced accordingly,
.... & if no CPO/Warranty problem with adding aftermarket camera
> Porsche Factory New Warranty &/or Porsche CPO time remaining a plus, & needed out of CA,
> Will want a PPI by my Porsche-Tech in SoCal, or Porsche Dealer/Independent if outside SoCal, >> No Rust Belt / Salty Roads cars!!!!
We're getting it primarily to tow our restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 trailer (#2 off the line) & my `73 Porsche 914-2.0 on flat or enclosed trailer tbd to resto shops, then shows & events, as well as for an "extra car" & for it in Concours & other PCA events & drives. I also have a WTB ad in PCA's Porsche Panorama to this effect. Long time Porsche 914-2.0 owner since 1975. We're able to pay cash/EFT/charge for the right CayS, once all checked out & deal negotiated.
FYI for what we're planning on towing with a CS - the 2nd attached pic is what we believe may be our Avion T20 trailer as used in the 1960 sales brochure (based on how it vs. ours was originally equipped, colors, etc. & that ours is the #2 S/N for their T20); ....
.... While the 1st pic is a cut-n-paste I did to show my wife what an `06 955 CS Titanium Ed. in the Iceland Silver (silvery light blue paint) color which we really like would look like hitched to "her cute trailer," but we moved on from it after Porsche's settlement was set-up to exclude subsequent owners after the Dec. 2014 closure of the program - yet another great customer dis-service move PCNA/PAG!!
Thanx again for any help on this 957 vs 958 Pros & Cons!
PS - for some reason the uploader reversed the order of my pix below, but you get the idea.
PSS - The wet & loaded weight of our Avion T20 is only about 3000 lbs. & is about 22'-6" with the Hensley Cub hitch & 542 lbs with the Cub+Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller & 2x 30 lb LP tanks on the A-frame - so well within the Cayenne's 7716 lb GTW & 770 lb HW (WD). We'd actually towed it with a rented 2013 Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 with the Hensley Cub, & it's super stable, so should be even better behind a CS!
I think we've talked (and perhaps it was me who you were referring to as having clued you in about the 958 "flaws".)
DESPITE the flaws - having owned an '06 CS-**** (Titanium edition) that looks exactly like the one in your pasteup - right down to the two tone rims (which I really loved the look of) - I much prefer the 958.
One flaw is easy to avoid. Buy a late 2012 or later and there is no Variocam bolt problem. It's only the 2011 and some early 2012 vehicles that have the bad bolts. Plus it's trivial to determine if there is the potential for a problem. You can do it right in the dealers lot.
The other "flaw" in the design - we're still sorting out. To me it appears the real flaw was Porsche considering the fluid in the transfer case as "lifetime" fluid (I think it is on the service schedule for something silly like 180,000 miles.) So far 100% of the Cayennes that experienced the transfer-case shudder and changed their oil have been cured. That's not 90% or even 95% - it's every damn one of them.
Porsche has been just replacing the cases. On low mileage failures that may be a wise move since there may be some other flaw in the TC that caused it to fail. On higher mileage vehicles - I think an oil change before assuming the case needs replacing would seem a more reasonable path.
In any case - the transfer case isn't a huge issue - it's around $4k if you do a bit of handwringing at the dealership, and you're a friendly sort of guy. If you buy a CPO vehicle - Porsche will happily replace it - apparently some dealers just do it as SOP for any running quality complaint if the car has CPO on it.
I do have to agree - Porsche really does shoot themselves in the foot. It's a case of the bean-counters over-riding the marketing guys. Fixing a flaw makes for a great story of how much a company loves it's customers - which then equates into new vehicle sales (and that's the basis behind every warranty..) Telling the customer "tough-luck" really has exactly the opposite effect - negating any good will the customer might have had due to prior warranty coverage experiences. I'm sure it's the bean counters denying coverage - the marketing guys should head in-mass to their office and beat them over the head with their calculators. If Porsche was smart (listening Porsche?) they'd just fix it. They make an average of $17,000 PROFIT on every Cayenne sold. That gives them a bit of room to be generous when they screw up. But I'm guessing VW's problems will also come back on Porsche who will have to cough up $$ to keep VW afloat.
Ah well - hope someone here has the vehicle you're looking for! Iceland Silver Metallic only came on the **** for '06 - it was a case of Porsche dipping into VW's paint selection. It was fairly common on VW's - I forget what they called the color - but the touchup paint is identical for both manufacturers.
Just realized I didn't say why I consider the 958 superior - a number of reasons.
Interior - the 955/957 was good quality materials with uninspiring design. It just looked bland. Blah. Nothing to write home about. The 958 interior is spectacular. HVAC - the 955/957 always left me with cold feet in the winter. It has tiny little vents to the footwells. The 958 has wonderful HVAC - mine just stays on AUTO MODE/72F year round. I never really touch it. The audio on the 955 was OK - the Burmeiser on the 958 is spectacular. SWMBO used to notice anything over about 70MPH in the 955. The 958 she doesn't even start to talk to herself until well over 100MPH. Below that - she doesn't notice it. The 955 is heavier than the 958 - and you CAN feel it. Low-range on a 955 sounds great - but after 4 years of ownership the only time mine ever made it into low range was me testing it in my driveway. The 8-speed on the 958 is a much better solution, and a much smoother shifting transmission. Pano-roof - problem in the 955/957, fixed in the 958.
Drive both. You decide. I've owned both - and I know which I really am loving at this point.
Last edited by deilenberger; 05-05-2017 at 06:27 PM.
I think we've talked (and perhaps it was me who you were referring to as having clued you in about the 958 "flaws".)
DESPITE the flaws - having owned an '06 CS-**** (Titanium edition) that looks exactly like the one in your pasteup - right down to the two tone rims (which I really loved the look of) - I much prefer the 958.
One flaw is easy to avoid. Buy a late 2012 or later and there is no Variocam bolt problem. It's only the 2011 and some early 2012 vehicles that have the bad bolts. Plus it's trivial to determine if there is the potential for a problem. You can do it right in the dealers lot.
The other "flaw" in the design - we're still sorting out. To me it appears the real flaw was Porsche considering the fluid in the transfer case as "lifetime" fluid (I think it is on the service schedule for something silly like 180,000 miles.) So far 100% of the Cayennes that experienced the transfer-case shudder and changed their oil have been cured. That's not 90% or even 95% - it's every damn one of them.
Porsche has been just replacing the cases. On low mileage failures that may be a wise move since there may be some other flaw in the TC that caused it to fail. On higher mileage vehicles - I think an oil change before assuming the case needs replacing would seem a more reasonable path.
In any case - the transfer case isn't a huge issue - it's around $4k if you do a bit of handwringing at the dealership, and you're a friendly sort of guy. If you buy a CPO vehicle - Porsche will happily replace it - apparently some dealers just do it as SOP for any running quality complaint if the car has CPO on it.
I do have to agree - Porsche really does shoot themselves in the foot. It's a case of the bean-counters over-riding the marketing guys. Fixing a flaw makes for a great story of how much a company loves it's customers - which then equates into new vehicle sales (and that's the basis behind every warranty..) Telling the customer "tough-luck" really has exactly the opposite effect - negating any good will the customer might have had due to prior warranty coverage experiences. I'm sure it's the bean counters denying coverage - the marketing guys should head in-mass to their office and beat them over the head with their calculators. If Porsche was smart (listening Porsche?) they'd just fix it. They make an average of $17,000 PROFIT on every Cayenne sold. That gives them a bit of room to be generous when they screw up. But I'm guessing VW's problems will also come back on Porsche who will have to cough up $$ to keep VW afloat.
Ah well - hope someone here has the vehicle you're looking for! Iceland Silver Metallic only came on the **** for '06 - it was a case of Porsche dipping into VW's paint selection. It was fairly common on VW's - I forget what they called the color - but the touchup paint is identical for both manufacturers.
Just realized I didn't say why I consider the 958 superior - a number of reasons.
Interior - the 955/957 was good quality materials with uninspiring design. It just looked bland. Blah. Nothing to write home about. The 958 interior is spectacular. HVAC - the 955/957 always left me with cold feet in the winter. It has tiny little vents to the footwells. The 958 has wonderful HVAC - mine just stays on AUTO MODE/72F year round. I never really touch it. The audio on the 955 was OK - the Burmeiser on the 958 is spectacular. SWMBO used to notice anything over about 70MPH in the 955. The 958 she doesn't even start to talk to herself until well over 100MPH. Below that - she doesn't notice it. The 955 is heavier than the 958 - and you CAN feel it. Low-range on a 955 sounds great - but after 4 years of ownership the only time mine ever made it into low range was me testing it in my driveway. The 8-speed on the 958 is a much better solution, and a much smoother shifting transmission. Pano-roof - problem in the 955/957, fixed in the 958.
Drive both. You decide. I've owned both - and I know which I really am loving at this point.
Hi Don, Thanx for your input.
We almost bought that **** until the owner balked at taking it to his dealer to have them do the coolant pipes for him under the full coverage program, since he had it under CPO up to a month or so before.
Unfortunately the Porsche Tech at that dealer also clued me in on the early headlights failing due to more heat in the early "Ameba" combined units, & the rear hatch struts being a PITA & expensive to replace - all 3 of the issues were mostly fixed in the 957 & 958, although there is still the adhesived coolant connector at the 957 "Horseshoe" coolant distributor & the return line in the valley still being plastic.
I don't know if there are still adhesive coolant connections & plastic parts in the 958 cooling system.
Yes we've talked about the 958 issues on the XC & Cam Bolt threads, which was how I joined here in the first place, after another 958 owner I know here in SoCal said I needed to read your Cam Bolt Failures topic a couple of weeks back.
Yes - they are design flaws, as are the IMS etc. that Porsche didn't used to let slide by back in the day. As a design professional myself, if I had a major design flaw of equivalent gravity as the Cam Bolts blowing engines & totaling cars - in any building I designed, then I can assure you that I'd be brought to task for it, & be bankrupt now!
Also, per your last post on the other Cam Bolt thread - I do think that the V8 is an "Interference Engine" where the valves & pistons can meet when the cam fails, & IIRC there were a couple of the 958 failures on your topic which that happened, having read all 30-some pages last weekend.
We have driven both 957 & 958 versions (& 955), & are fine with both for each one's design, styling, etc. - but really preferred the `06 only TI's Iceland Silver (same name on the VW Tregs, & we drove a V10 TDI in that color), as well as preferring the 08-10 marine Blue over the darker later blues. The other colors - which are mostly "50 shades of gray" & 75% BLACK! - are all about equal for us - okay but no real excitement.
I do think the 958 is a better design, but frankly I hate the Boxster/Cayman & Cayenne "flower petal" taillights, & the Macan is much better design all around, including the tail end - which look I hear the next gen 95X is due to get.
As you might guess - cold feet here in Sunny SoCal isn't much of a problem - whereas, dark paint & interior colors are with our hot weather, & the Pano Roofs are just nonsense for the same reason. But I'm glad you say that the 958 Pano roof is better, since I'm seeing so many with them, but it's a factor if I can find one with just the standard sunroof instead.
As for low range, well if I get myself stuck in a tight spot while hitched & need to maneuver on loose gravel on a grade, well it might just come in handy! I too think the 8-speed & the auto stop/start, etc. is a more advanced design, but we won't realize much advantages in mpg & smoothness with ours mostly in the tow configuration.
But what the heck is SWMBO!!?? .... oh wait, I have one of those too, with probably twice the years of side-seat driving as yours I might add!
As always - Thanx for your insights, & hopefully others will chime in too.
Rumpole of Bailey Street - She Who Must Be Obeyed..
Dunno on the years.. unless you got married as an adolescent. We're getting awfully close to 50 years of assisted driving.
Yes Don, as a PBS Mystery guy for decades now, I recognized it immediately as a Rumpole-ism, but had to call it out.
While we married in our 30's 36 years ago - 2nd for both of us - so I figure she's had side-seat driving experience since at least 18 with BFs & 1st - while I thought you guys were just in your 30s for some reason.
05-05-2017, 01:33 PM
Pros & Cons 957 vs 958 CS?
What we're looking for in a 957/958 CS FYI
