Can you get similar results that a machine would give if you detailed by hand alone? Thanks.

 

In short, no. You can spend 30 hours hand polishing a vehicle and come up with results that you would get with a bad pad, polish and decent machine in 3 hours, so while you'll spend TONS of time to get anywhere near the results a machine can leave, you still fall short. However, I am mostly talking about paint correction, since that is what machines are mainly used for (I mention this because some people like to apply wax with the PC)... In certain cases it will simply be impossible to remove a scratch or some deeper swirl marks by hand, so you're simply sol without a machine

Washing, claying, waxing should be done properly to ensure the best finish without a machine

 

It depends on exactly what you are talking about doing by hand or by machine and how hard or soft the clear coat is on the vehicle in question.

But for paint correction, swirl removal and such, NO WAY NEVER EVER......ever!!!

Josh

 

No way !!!!! The work that you would have to do my hand to equal a machine would be unreal. Your biceps would be huge though

 

Nice topic name btw

 

hahaha

 

OK then the next question would be, what is the machine of choice that you can grow into as your skills improve? My car has some fine marks in the clear. Nothing spectacular, but you can see it if you get really close to it. Looking to clean it up,polish then wax it. Can anyone list the hardware I need? I use mostly Mothers and Meguiers Stuff because its convenient. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

Aside from your washing tools, claybar, and about 20m/f towels, I would recommend

1. a Porter Cable Random orbital machine (or maybe try the new flex orbital) 2. 2-3 polishes max (meguiar's 83, 80 and 82 should do the trick) and
3. a few lake country pads (1 black, 2-3 white, 2 orange, maybe 1 yellow) or Meg's pads (1-2 9006, 2-3 8006)

That's about as minimum as you want to order to take care of the car

 

Glad to hear you're interested in improving your craft. For starters, I'm assuming you're going to use these products on your Basalt Black P-car. My favorite polishes right now, and for the past 2 years, are Menzerna Super Intensive Polish and Nano Polish. The pads of choice are Lake Country orange and white. These polish/pad combo will take care of 95% + of issues on p-cars. If you have minor imperfections, then you use Nano and White pad combo. If you have a little more spiderwebbing and swirls, you'll use SIP and Orange pad and follow up with Nano and White pad. The new FLEX would be the polisher of choice. Think of it as a hybrid between the PC and Rotary. It has near-rotary power and correcting ability, but it's safe as a PC. It will generate a little more head than the PC so don't stay in one place for too long. Hope this helps.

 

Michael,

Hit me up we have some more Flex XC3401's coming in shortly. I can build you a kit with the Menzerna products and pads you need.

Let me know.

And yes the machine will yield better results than doing this all by hand.

 

Only if you want a "happy ending" .

 

Moe,

If using a PC with orange or white Lake County pad, what speed would you set the PC at for both?

Thanks!

 

With the orange and SIP, start at 3 to work the polish in and jump to 5. With the nano and white pad, 4 or 5 is my setting.

 

The problem with a PC are numerous.

One of the first is that it does NOT have the capabilities to reliably break down sip or 106 in all areas before it starts to dry the product out. Tight corners, curves, and edges all suffer from this problem. The PC simply does not have the rotation to tumble the polish. This is required for the polish to break down. The pc will just oscillate the polish thus leaving portions that are either unbroken down or sharp on one side.

Another maddening reason is the fatigue generated by the PC, two step correction on a moderately marred car is a 10-14 hour polishing process. That clacking, vibrating, and noise will drive any one insane after 2-3 cars. There is also the effect it has on nerves, elbow's and shoulders. Constant vibration like the pc can make your arms numb for hours.

Lack of power. Simply put, you apply more than a smidgen of pressure and the PC bogs down. It becomes much less effective the more pressure you apply. It can be some what maddening on a very hard clear. You need the pressure for the "cut and polish" yet the pc can not handle it.

No trigger variable speed. Most rotary's and even the flex have a trigger variable speed. You set the max and then vary your trigger pull to spread the polish out, then lock the trigger to actually work the polish.

finally the biggest problem is there is no real benefit you can take with you after learning the PC to another platform. IE flex or rotary. How you polish with the PC is not how you polish with the flex or the rotary.

The flex is an interesting hybrid between a rotary and a orbit machine.

It has the necessary rotation for tumbling the polish. Due to how the flex 3401 is designed it can provide you with both rotation and orbit. At speed 6 it has 9600 orbits (basically the equivalent of an air drive orbiter) and 480 RPM. This gives the flex enough movement to rotate and tumble the polish at a low rpm. While giving you the brute force or 10k orbit power. This will help turn that 10-14 hour 2 step polish via PC into a 5-7 hour job.

It is a smoother machine with a different vibration and noise. The flex's system is a gear driven counter weight. With the proper type of care it will be far smoother, quieter and there for much less mental and physical stress.

Basically at speed 6 It also has much more torque than most rotary's, allowing you to work an area with more pressure before it begins to bog down. Not that you will always need more pressure with it's hybrid type of movement. That extra power, and torque are what really make using a flex a joy compared to a PC orbit.

It will show a rotary user all of their bad habits. Due to the nature of how the flex moves it is beneficial that you have good rotary habits. The flex will walk on panels with poor habits, Most noticeable when people tend to edge their rotary's. By learning to keep the flex flat, they will transfer that knowledge to a rotary when they move up.

The flex will finish down tough details better than a PC. The flex has the tumble necessary to finish down paints that may have a trace of holograming in the tight corners, or bends fender flare. Where as the PC simply can not effectively remove those areas because of it's lack of rotation and lack of power.

my 2 cents in a world of twenty dollar bills.

 

Doing it by hand is ok, but obviously it isn't the answer.

A PC is a good tool for a hobby detailer that is totally content with a simple, yet effective solution.

The Flex takes the PC one step further, I would classify that as a tool for guys that demand better than average results but want it simple and worry free at the same time. The Flex has a bigger learning curve and better results than a PC, but still considerably less than a rotary.

The Rotary is the tool of choice for professionals. It does the absolute best job hands down. Reduces paint defects exponentially faster than any orbital, and delivers sharper reflections and better finishes at the same time. For those that are willing to put in the time to learn and refine their technique, this is the tool of choice.

Huge downside is the learning curve and potential for damage. If you are a simply hobbyist, this may not be the choice for you simply because of the time investment required in order to achieve the results that you would want. The first few times out of the gate the PC is going to be vastly superior than the work put out by an amateur rotary user, but as you get more accustomed to it, not only will the process get faster but the results will get better and better.

The choice of what you should go with is really up to what you want for results, and the time that you are willing to put in to achieve them. With as inexpensive as machine polishers are now, doing it by hand isn't even an option anymore.