Detailing Paint, body, detailing and waxing.

Paint Protection Film

Thread Tools
 
Rate Thread
 
Old Jan 5, 2011 | 05:43 AM
  #1  
JSF721's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 999
From: LI, New York
Rep Power: 69
JSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud of
Paint Protection Film

I have a White 911 Turbo S delivering in March. I would like to protect the paint with PPF. I am having trouble deciding on a brand and what locations to protect.

1. I want to cover the whole hood, in addition to other parts of the car.

2. I want it to be the clearest possible product because the car is white.

3. I don't think I would prefer the film be cut on my car bc this can lead to paint damage right? So someone with a template cutter is prefered. If I am wrong here please correct me.

4. I am unsure of how much of the car to cover and exacatally where to out it? Right now I am thinking of the following locations:

Hood, whole front bumper and spoiler, A pillars facing forward, top strip of roof facing forward, mirrors, replace factory shark fins, rear bumper and lower rear spoiler, door jam sills and sideskirts into all wheel wells?

Maybe I should just wrap this beast in white gloss vinyl and enjoy? (not really)

Looking for the best product, by the best installer in my area at a fair price.

Thanks for any feedback.
 
Old Jan 5, 2011 | 08:13 AM
  #2  
MoeMistry's Avatar
Premium Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,112
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Rep Power: 263
MoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond repute
Contact Matt or Eddie at www.detailingdynamics.com

The areas I'd cover are:

1. Full Hood
2. Full Bumper
3. Headlights
4. Full Fenders
5. Mirrors
6. Rear wheels arches since rock chips hit there
7. On the S, lower rocker piece below the door. That whole strip.

If Matt and Eddie are doing the work, go with a custom install. It's much cleaner and if those guys are cutting, nothing to worry about. They're one of the best in the country.

Over time, there will be some yellowing of the film that is noticed. There's not much that can be done. The more the car is garaged, the less the yellowing effect.
 
Old Jan 5, 2011 | 08:49 AM
  #3  
JSF721's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 999
From: LI, New York
Rep Power: 69
JSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by MoeMistry
Contact Matt or Eddie at www.detailingdynamics.com

The areas I'd cover are:

1. Full Hood
2. Full Bumper
3. Headlights
4. Full Fenders
5. Mirrors
6. Rear wheels arches since rock chips hit there
7. On the S, lower rocker piece below the door. That whole strip.

If Matt and Eddie are doing the work, go with a custom install. It's much cleaner and if those guys are cutting, nothing to worry about. They're one of the best in the country.

Over time, there will be some yellowing of the film that is noticed. There's not much that can be done. The more the car is garaged, the less the yellowing effect.
What is the brand you would use on the car if it were yours? And why?

Thanks for the detailed reply.
 
Old Jan 7, 2011 | 09:03 AM
  #4  
Rickrack's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 33
From: NH, MA
Rep Power: 20
Rickrack is infamous around these parts
I agree with Moe. That coverage should suit you well and protect all critical areas. I just did a film install on a white Ferrari 458 Italia (identical coverage as Moe mentioned) using VentureShield film and the install came out flawless.

I have done numerous Porsches/exotics and wouldn't use anything but Llumar or Ventureshield film. They are very glossy films with little orange peel and are barely noticeable compared to the uncovered areas. Another great thing about these brand films is the ability to remove minor defects by performing a light polish. Some films don't polish out too well, so this is very important to me in case you accidentally scratch it. Make sure you do your research to find a quality installer and have the paint properly prepped before having the film installed. Also, be sure to keep the film protected after the install to keep it looking its best.

I'd be happy to PM a few pictures to show you what the Ventureshield film looks like installed on various cars as I don't want to spam.

Good luck and congrats on the Turbo S!!
 
Old Jan 7, 2011 | 10:23 AM
  #5  
EliminatorXP's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 13
From: OC California
Rep Power: 0
EliminatorXP is infamous around these parts
Here is some Invisible Bra info I thought I would pass on.....This info is based on reviews and information obtained from PPF manufacturers.




3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film


The Good

Its good points are undeniable. The brand name of a juggernaut, huge R&D budget and more years in the business of gluing things to other things than anyone has made them the top dog in PPF. The film is tough, the top coat is the toughest by far, and you can even wet sand and buff it, but don’t try that with any of the others, unless you feel like putting a brand-new sheet of film on. The 3M PPF resists growth of fungus and algae, yes it is true, oogies can grow inside your film. 3M’s point of purchase materials are good, probably the best available and if you have a good distributor, they may throw in the promo stuff if you order enough film. Now for the bad news.

The Bad

I will set aside my ego for a second to say that 3M Paint Protection Film is all but impossible to put on flawlessly. I have installed almost all the films on the market over the course of nearly a decade and it’s no exaggeration. One false move and you get a permanent flaw. It seems that its greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Yes, the very thing that makes the topcoat so easy to repair and so durable, also makes it easy to crease, stress and mark with your squeegee. Unfortunately, many of these types of flaws are not repairable. It does yellow on white cars, but then, all PPF does to some extent.

Conclusion; 3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film is good for long-term use, it does its job well on vehicles that will see a lot of miles and for the customer who can accept some stretch marks and wrinkles here and there in exchange for durability, reparability and a brand name that they can trust.



Venture Shield Ultra

A lesser-known film, but growing in popularity so quickly that it was snatched up by the company mentioned above. Although 3M says that their acquisition of Venture Tape was not related to the PPF market, it is pretty hard to believe that it was not a factor. The fact is that Venture Shield Ultra was starting to grab PPF market share hand over fist, so draw your own conclusion.

The Good

It is remarkably easy to install. I mean the stuff looks really good right off the bat. It is less expensive than 3M, Xpel or Avery film, so if you are an entry-level installer just striking out into the world of PPF, Venture Shield Ultra could be the film for you.

The Bad

Again, its strength is its weakness. Since a soft top-coat equals good looking initial install, it also means no reparability. This is bad for longevity, and bad for installation, if you mar the finish of the topcoat during install it can be tough, if not impossible to fix.

The rolls of film come with this annoying sheet of Mylar on top of the film, put there presumably to protect the film from itself while in storage and transit, maybe to prevent growth on the roll, I don’t know. I have never asked anyone from Venture why it’s there but, holy cow it sucks! You can’t plot the kit with the Mylar on, or the film will not track right, so you have to take it off pre-cut. Well, this is not all that easy, it’s hard to get started peeling, then, once you have it going, you better hope that you’re nowhere near your plotter because there’s so much static electricity you will fry the electronics in nothing flat (you could probably cook a dog with the amount of static you get). In case you’re wondering, yes static electricity does attract lint and debris from the air, ground and clothes near-by.

Conclusion; the money you save on film and install time will be nothing compared to the time and money you loose fighting lint, fried electronics, and massive amounts of extra garbage, which, by the way, is what the film will be in 2 years with its wimpy top-coat.




Xpel Technologies Standard PPF

Amid rapid growth in the Paint Protection Film industries’ adolescence, springs a new kid on the block. For the past 13+ years, Xpel has established itself as one of the best producers of PPF patterns in the industry. At the 2007 SEMA show they stunned the PPF world by introducing their own Paint Protection Film. Amid rumors of stealing technology and simply taking someone else’s film and re-branding it, they bravely threw themselves into the fray.

Some would cower in fear of uber-massive corporations like 3M, but not Xpel. In reality, history is on their side. Remember that 3M invented window tint film, now 20 years later they fight tooth-and-nail to retain a respectable market share. No, in reality, it is inevitable that, as the industry gains popularity among the public, more competition will enter the marketplace with billions to gain. Smaller companies can move more nimbly to adjust to market, consumer and re-seller needs. This is where a company like Xpel has the advantage. Like Llumar and Madico did with window film, Xpel is determined to show the world that there is another, better alternative for PPF.

From what I have seen of the film, it is good. It goes on with relative ease, the initial look is clean, and surface marring can be addressed, though not as easily as 3Ms can, it does not have an annoying Mylar transit coat and it tracks well on the plotter. It has an anti-fungal like 3M. Fingers lay with ease, although they do tend to want to pop up later, so be careful of that. Overall I think that it is a nearly perfect balance between the Scotchgard and Venture Shield Paint Protection Films. With a 7-year warranty and an aggressive marketing campaign, they should build market share with speed. Time will tell how well the film holds up to real world application, but at this rate it won’t be long before they have a giant looking over its shoulder.


Since I did this write up there have been other films that have arrived on the market. One to really watch for is the new Avery Dennison "Nano Fusion" film which has some unreal characteristics.....


Hope this helps...




 
Old Jan 7, 2011 | 10:39 AM
  #6  
djantlive's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,788
From: SFBA
Rep Power: 344
djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !djantlive Is a GOD !
^^^ I have used 3M and Venture. Between the 2, I would opt for 3M for slight durability advantage. Venture isn't bad by any means. I think they are both fairly good. Installation skill is key. Don't do a precut.
 
Old Jan 8, 2011 | 09:22 AM
  #7  
MoeMistry's Avatar
Premium Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,112
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Rep Power: 263
MoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond repute
We were at SEMA a few months ago and saw so many different film manufacturers. It's almost like they're all on par with one another. The one we were most impressed with wax Avery. The film was very optically clear but the only drawback is, I don't think they have the wider roll needed to do a full hood on most cars. With that said, i think 3M and Venture are still the top dogs on the market. XPEL is a very close second. But as i mentioned, installer is the key.
 
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 12:13 PM
  #8  
PCJR's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 857
From: PA
Rep Power: 63
PCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to beholdPCJR is a splendid one to behold
3M does not make a sheet wide enough to cover the top edges of the hood. You will end up with small (annoying) triangle pieces as fillers.
I have it on my white turbo and compared to the Venture I had on my last two cars, I would do Venture again in a heart beat over 3M. 3M also has a lot more orange peel in the top coat.
 
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 02:25 PM
  #9  
JSF721's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 999
From: LI, New York
Rep Power: 69
JSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by PCJR
3M does not make a sheet wide enough to cover the top edges of the hood. You will end up with small (annoying) triangle pieces as fillers.
I have it on my white turbo and compared to the Venture I had on my last two cars, I would do Venture again in a heart beat over 3M. 3M also has a lot more orange peel in the top coat.
Thanks, any pictures of the car? Can you see the difference between paint and film colorwise?
 
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 07:06 PM
  #10  
MoeMistry's Avatar
Premium Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,112
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Rep Power: 263
MoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by JSF721
Thanks, any pictures of the car? Can you see the difference between paint and film colorwise?
Colorwise, after about 6 months or so, depending on your paint color, you will see a difference if the car is driven and used a few times per week.

Orange peel, texture wise, you will notice film next to paint. But depending on the film, the difference can be minor.
 
Old Jan 11, 2011 | 07:14 PM
  #11  
JSF721's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 999
From: LI, New York
Rep Power: 69
JSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud ofJSF721 has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by Trey @ Speed Specialists
I'll keep this as concise as possible because there's a whole myriad of semantics that may be interesting to me but could be quite yawn inducing for the consumer.

Ask yourself these questions when researching for a high quality clear bra.

1.) What is the goal of my clear bra?
2.) What material looks and performs the best?
3.) How much do I want to budget for my clear bra?
4.) Who do I want to install my clear bra?


1.) The point of any clear bra is to protect your paint from all sorts of harmful elements including sand, gravel, road debris, sun, sleet, sap, chemicals, vandalism, other cars and inanimate objects such as garage doors, fence posts, gas station bollards. If you want to know how many things can damage you car just let one of your buddies drive it for a couple days. Objects will just fly out of "nowhere" to hit the car and mar the finish.
If you are only concerned with protecting against rock chips and abrasions then do the high impact areas of your car. These include, but are not limited to:

Full Hood
Full Fenders
Mirror Caps
Full Bumper
Headlights/Fog Lights
Roof Brow (front edge back to sunroof)
Full Rockers including "Dorsal Flare" or shark fin as you put it
Door Sills (door sills get shoe scuffs if not protected)
Rear Splash (full rear bumper is recommended)

If you're concerned with contaminants and chemicals such as bird droppings (can be very damaging), tree sap, oil splatters, brake fluid, washer fluid, vandalism, etc. then you might want to consider a full wrap. A number of our customers express great appreciation when a full wrap saves their paint from chemicals or vandalism in an area that would have otherwise not been protected. In the end, a clear bra is simply a sacrificial shield to protect your real asset which is the factory paint. It's disposable protection and way cheaper than a repainted panel.


2.) With almost 12 years in this industry and experience testing almost every single paint protection material on the market, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. To separate the real quality materials from the bunch I developed a 25 item, 1-10 grading scale that includes topics such as Aesthetics, Durability, Adhesion, Installation, and Logistics. (Logistics includes Quality Control, Size Selection, Pricing, Availability).
I might get into it deeper at another time but what you want to know is who the top 3 films are at this point.

1= Venture Shield 7510CC ---- (best Aesthetics, best Durability, great Adhesion, good Installation, good Logistics.)
2= Avery Nano Fusion ---- (great Aesthetics, great Durability, great Adhesion, best Installation, undesirable Logistics.)
3= Llumar ---- (good Aesthetics, great Durability, good Adhesion, good Installation, fair Logistics.)

(The runners up are 3M Aerospace-8674 and 3M Scotchgard. 3M deserves heaps of credit for being the pioneers of this material and influencing the development of this entire industry. All clear bra installers should tip their hats to 3M for their efforts in research and development of polyurethanes and applied films in general.)

The rule of thumb is that all films will get slightly darker over time due to exposure to exhaust fumes, industrial smog and petroleum products. Proper maintenance will diminish these effects and by covering full panels it is very hard to notice with the naked eye.


3.) Ultimately, if price was no object then do a full wrap. Our full wrap customers constantly find new reasons to be thankful that they have the protection. Your budget is a very personal thing and any experienced installer will work with you to develop a solution that is in your budget which brings me to the last topic.

4.) Do research in your area as to what the going rate for quality work is. Ask how much experience an installer has and ask to see some of their work. Quality installers will be proud of their work and will be glad to show you. Check out their website and portfolio if they have one. An experienced installer will have no problem custom cutting a clear bra on your car and not damaging the paint underneath. Remember that quality work isn't expensive, it's priceless! You really do get what you pay for so don't shop on price alone.
Thanks for teh education. Truley appreciated. If an installer can get templates, and customize them to wrap the edges, why take a chance cutting on the car? Chances are I will not see "cut" paint until I remove the clear bra to replace it, right?
 
Old Jan 11, 2011 | 09:34 PM
  #12  
MoeMistry's Avatar
Premium Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,112
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Rep Power: 263
MoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Trey @ Speed Specialists
I'll keep this as concise as possible because there's a whole myriad of semantics that may be interesting to me but could be quite yawn inducing for the consumer.

Ask yourself these questions when researching for a high quality clear bra.

1.) What is the goal of my clear bra?
2.) What material looks and performs the best?
3.) How much do I want to budget for my clear bra?
4.) Who do I want to install my clear bra?


1.) The point of any clear bra is to protect your paint from all sorts of harmful elements including sand, gravel, road debris, sun, sleet, sap, chemicals, vandalism, other cars and inanimate objects such as garage doors, fence posts, gas station bollards. If you want to know how many things can damage you car just let one of your buddies drive it for a couple days. Objects will just fly out of "nowhere" to hit the car and mar the finish.
If you are only concerned with protecting against rock chips and abrasions then do the high impact areas of your car. These include, but are not limited to:

Full Hood
Full Fenders
Mirror Caps
Full Bumper
Headlights/Fog Lights
Roof Brow (front edge back to sunroof)
Full Rockers including "Dorsal Flare" or shark fin as you put it
Door Sills (door sills get shoe scuffs if not protected)
Rear Splash (full rear bumper is recommended)

If you're concerned with contaminants and chemicals such as bird droppings (can be very damaging), tree sap, oil splatters, brake fluid, washer fluid, vandalism, etc. then you might want to consider a full wrap. A number of our customers express great appreciation when a full wrap saves their paint from chemicals or vandalism in an area that would have otherwise not been protected. In the end, a clear bra is simply a sacrificial shield to protect your real asset which is the factory paint. It's disposable protection and way cheaper than a repainted panel.


2.) With almost 12 years in this industry and experience testing almost every single paint protection material on the market, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. To separate the real quality materials from the bunch I developed a 25 item, 1-10 grading scale that includes topics such as Aesthetics, Durability, Adhesion, Installation, and Logistics. (Logistics includes Quality Control, Size Selection, Pricing, Availability).
I might get into it deeper at another time but what you want to know is who the top 3 films are at this point.

1= Venture Shield 7510CC ---- (best Aesthetics, best Durability, great Adhesion, good Installation, good Logistics.)
2= Avery Nano Fusion ---- (great Aesthetics, great Durability, great Adhesion, best Installation, undesirable Logistics.)
3= Llumar ---- (good Aesthetics, great Durability, good Adhesion, good Installation, fair Logistics.)

(The runners up are 3M Aerospace-8674 and 3M Scotchgard. 3M deserves heaps of credit for being the pioneers of this material and influencing the development of this entire industry. All clear bra installers should tip their hats to 3M for their efforts in research and development of polyurethanes and applied films in general.)

The rule of thumb is that all films will get slightly darker over time due to exposure to exhaust fumes, industrial smog and petroleum products. Proper maintenance will diminish these effects and by covering full panels it is very hard to notice with the naked eye.


3.) Ultimately, if price was no object then do a full wrap. Our full wrap customers constantly find new reasons to be thankful that they have the protection. Your budget is a very personal thing and any experienced installer will work with you to develop a solution that is in your budget which brings me to the last topic.

4.) Do research in your area as to what the going rate for quality work is. Ask how much experience an installer has and ask to see some of their work. Quality installers will be proud of their work and will be glad to show you. Check out their website and portfolio if they have one. An experienced installer will have no problem custom cutting a clear bra on your car and not damaging the paint underneath. Remember that quality work isn't expensive, it's priceless! You really do get what you pay for so don't shop on price alone.
Great FYI...thanks for taking the time and effort to write it. Enjoyed reading it and got a good bit of education.
 
Old Jan 12, 2011 | 10:14 AM
  #13  
RPGilberts87's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
From: Kent, WA
Rep Power: 20
RPGilberts87 is infamous around these parts
Another place I would install your PPF is underneath the door handles. Just in case somebody with long fingernails, a ring, or something that can mar that area.
 
Old Jan 12, 2011 | 10:16 AM
  #14  
MoeMistry's Avatar
Premium Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,112
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Rep Power: 263
MoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond reputeMoeMistry has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Trey @ Speed Specialists

Thanks Moe. Sounds like you know where to send him to get treated well. Keep up the good work.
Ya...Matt and Eddie do some great work. I need to make out there one day and check out their place.

By the looks of things, you do some impressive work as well. Always good to know where the best are around the country. Good networking.
 
Old Jan 13, 2011 | 05:32 PM
  #15  
agentf1's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 131
Rep Power: 27
agentf1 is infamous around these partsagentf1 is infamous around these parts
Why is it nobody mentions Clear Shield? My installer swears by this stuff. He says it is one of the clearer/brighter films on the market and it hold up well. My installer is also one of the best installers in this area and come HIGHLY recommended by both 3M and XPel representatives.

I think it is made by Bekaert Specialty Film LLC.
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:37 PM.