as heavy as you can possibly think....


over 1 foot deep puddles at apex's


i hit one on my warmup lap and the car almost shut off...

 

yea... just alot more of a car.... 7 sec faster a lap at a track like road atlanta.... both from 996 and 997......

997 lack of ABS and suspension is pretty serious..... alot more of a racecar..... people really struggle with the 997......

 

Here's a rhetorical question... Wouldn't the comparison of two cars be more accurate if the same driver on the same track, on the same day tested 'em -- kinda like Chris Harris did -- than trying to extrapolate results from a virtual comparison based on results from an older model with different different drivers on different days on different tracks!?

 

IMO, the only way you're going to be able to fairly warrant a winner between a stock 996/997 GT3 and GT-R, would be through independent testing with the same driver and variables. Hopefully you guys can get something set up, to end this debate once and for all. Even then, you'll want to pick a good driver, as extracting the full potential out of a GT3 likely requires a greater amount of skill, if you're strictly trying to compare the ultimate performance of each car. Even then, certain tracks may suit another car better than the other, which still won't allow for a clear defined winner IMO. Something I thought was evident at R&T's track testing at Buttonwillow and at the Ring, although Nissan's Ring testing conditions and procedure are presumably better. The A+B+C/Z-G=winner reasoning just doesn't cut it, and is about as meaningful as the mag jargon some have come to hate. There are just way too many variables in the 1 lap shootout to justifiably choose which car is faster around the circuit. My 2 cents.

 

But why bother? You've already proved the 996 GT3 is much faster. There doesn't seem like much point in arguing that.

I don't see any need to settle any scores. Your logic is very clear- the GT-R is just a much slower car, no questions about it. I mean maybe I got the 13 seconds wrong; maybe it's a little more or less? What numbers would you use? But clearly the result is already in- we can say with certainty that it's many, many seconds slower. Why even bother to argue that?

 

yea... the first session first run group had wet track.. but not raining... it started raining on their cooldown lap for us...



the 2nd session it was a monsoon....

 

i still think the GTR is faster......

but u guys really need to see this black GT3.. and see its speed... ive never seen street gt3 set up so well and drivin this good... its a fast car.... noone can really beat it bad cept the viper.... and the gt3 is giving Davia a run now....

the viper.. i think you guys should know... is not a stock ACR... and we also found out to day.. its ECU is tied into steering angle.. the rear dif is electronic.. and it has traction control system.... all working together... so its a beast....


also guys... we did the drags today.. we had time after the 2nd event.. so we did um...


we thought we were down on power to the gt3... but now realize we down on power big to him.. and even to ourselves... cause somethings not right....

we ran a 13.2 at 105...

and the gt3 ran a 12.5 at 114 with a pretty bad launch... he was going for another round when we were leaving....

also.. i remembered that David Murry ran a 996 GT3 givin to him by PORSCHE to run..... incase u guys are wondering who david murry is... he drove for porsche in the 1998 24 hours of lemans.....

he ran a 8:11 at road america....... total time.. in a bone stock GT3... Ian ran a 8:15......... But.. heres the kicker.... we ran the chicane in the back straight which is about 6 or 7 sec a lap..... its right before the kink.... and David didnt..... so thats HUGE time right there.... without the chicane i can see Ian doing a sub 7min run pretty easy.... and David had many laps at Road America where as Ian had never been there......

so.. you guys need to really realize that the 996 gt3 is a beast.... and gettin driving really well... and is not even close to running the same times a stock 996 gt3 would.. its much faster....


and i will say it again.. the GTR is not gettin drivin like the GT3.... not even close... also.. yes Tony is a good driver and has done alot of onelaps.... but last year.. and most years in the past.. Tony didnt even drive the tracks... TC Kline drove pretty much all of them last year...

 

I actually agree, but how is this less acceptable than EVO mag drifting a GT3 around a track while following a proper line in the GT-R WITH VIDEO. Or drifting a TT around a track vs GT-R and M3 WITH VIDEO AND DATA? Or 5 seconds at Buttonwillow WITH DATA? Or a stupid one lap battle in freezing conditions?

This is much less rediculous than poser drivers and people sandbagging in the magazines so they can call the GT-R a better car than this or that.

This is much more beleivable than the magazines. Who have been straight blatant with their misrepresentation and poor driving. And this includes ALL OF THE TESTS that have been printed so far.

If tony swan is being outdriven so by autocrossers in their first one lap, then how much more so should he get outdriven by a factory test driver, that still tunes and drives for a living and can set astounding times in the GT-R?

The one lap has accomplished everything it needed to, just proves that STEVE MILLEN was sandbagging, and IS a NISSAN PR guy. PERIOD. So the fanboys can take the road and track article trophy and shove it.

So now you're left to rely on the other mag test where the GT-R wins by one second with drifting 911's.

 

The question is, however, how much quicker would the GT-R be with a driver of similar ability to this particular 996 GT3's? The GT-R is supposed to be much easier than most cars to drive quickly, so, isn't Tony Swan 'good enough' that it wouldn't make a tremendous difference? Not being smart, just putting it out there.

Also, if this particular GT3 is limited to basic set-up adjustments, I'd say that it accurately displays the Porsche's capability. As we all know, many sports cars 'right from the manufacturer' aren't set up for optimum performance, but are very conservative.. some cars more so than others. I wouldn't hold the legal department's decisions against the cars themselves.

 

BTW Leh, 114 is a pretty good trap speed for a GT3, but nothing unreal, so I think it may have a little more power but not much.

More importantly, I think if it's beating your cayman by 10 mph on the straights your car has a problem that needs to be addressed as the stock cayman S traps 105. The guy may have something wrong with that much power loss and should get it checked out because there may be something serious wrong with it.


On that note, to be in second overall in an esentially stock power CaymanS with a very good suspension is pretty spectacular.

 

I think these are 2 great points. If the GTR has the top shelf nanny/PS3 assistance as advertised then decrying that the 30 year motorsports enthusiast driver/journalist is not giving it a fair run is a contrary argument.

Also, the beauty of the 911 platforms are the near total interchangeability with the motorsports parts bins that have been finessed by factory and aftermarket teams and tuners for decades.

 

A stock power level CaymanS is spanking the GTR.....

 

This was my point. Tony is not a terrible driver,so whoever got in the car would have to not only catch the GT3 but then pass it. So we are talking some serious driving skills here to make up all those seconds. Not just a good driver, because Tony is that.

Time will tell, but I can assure you when there are very good drivers in both cars trying to win, the magazines will not be indicative of the results.

 

Thank you.

Also, due to the safety of its AWD and handling systems, I'd think the GT-R is delivered with a set-up much closer to optimum than the GT3's.

 

so did SRT-4 in that particular event... it even spanked GT3