That's really academic. It's not like they couldn't make a bell housing that bolts up to the Metzger crankcase. You make it sound like the turbo cars had to use the new engine because they were going PDK. That's just silly.

And if rumours be true, not only will the new GT3 use the new engine, but starting in 2013 the Cup Cars will as well. I don't think it's identity crisis. I think it's the end of an era.

 

My point is why stop at paddle shifting if the car can shift better on it's own? It's not exactly easy if you shuffle steer to keep track of where the paddles are, and even still pushing that paddle is might hard when your arms are all crossed up. The goal is ultimate speed, and concentration according to the dual clutch supporters, well eliminating the driver input on shifting altogether is the ultimate release of driver responsibility and falls right in line. So why not just drive in Auto? There is human error in paddle shifting too. And since we are trying to eliminate as much human error and difficulty as possible with electronics and gadgets, then might as well let the computer do as much as possible.

If it's not already, the computer can easily be programmed to make better more concise shifts than any human. Next up: assisted steering, assisted braking and ultimately remote control from pit lane.

 

Im going to be practicing at all the tracks hopefully to get back to Grand-Am next year. Likely a 997cup, but things may change as the time gets nearer.

 

[QUOTE=heavychevy;3327511]So why not just drive in Auto? There is human error in paddle shifting too. And since we are trying to eliminate as much human error and difficulty as possible with electronics and gadgets, then might as well let the computer do as much as possible.

i dont like the way gtr shifts on track in auto mode. too many shifts, too high a gear, etc. not sure why it does that but it works well in manual mode though.

 

So your position is that if you've got to shift mid-corner, which most of us attempt to avoid doing, then it's easier to reach down and manipulate the gear stick than it is to find the paddle?

 

they will have PDK. Maybe not the first year the 991 GT3 is out but they will have it...

 

My friend, if you have been on enough tracks, you will know that at some point on some track you will have to shift while you are still turning. That is if you intend in going fast.

The concept behind dual clutch us making the job of the driver easier, so what I'm saying is why not take it one step further and eliminate the shifting altogether. It is the next evolution in eliminating human error and responsibility.

 

This is probably a ways off (fully automatic racing transmission) but is not without merit. Full throttle, redline upshifts are inconsistent at best with paddles, and should be done by computer. Therein lies the point - where do you stop? ABS, power steering, traction control... radios, air conditioning... if progress is strictly made in favor of "better performance at the track" - when is the line crossed? Without question, if a car were developed to lap a track without other cars on said track having it programmed to do so would ultimately yield more consistent and better track times than human drivers. Sensors respond quicker, computers have no fear, and they can duplicate things with precision humans cannot, to name a few things that could give it superiority.

This argument has been had a million times, and I almost feel silly responding again, but comparing a GT3 to a cup car is not understanding what a GT3 is. The paddles belong in a cup car (which is a race car) - the GT3 isn't a cup car, it's a GT3. My GT2 sees thousands of street miles and what... less than 100 track miles a year? Even if it saw 1000, why would I compromise the enjoyment of thousands of street miles for a fractional amount of track miles? So I can circle jerk with other flappy paddle box dudes about how they are a second faster than me because they opted to have a computer do something for them instead of doing it themselves?

No thank you. You can keep your "2 seconds faster"

-m (who still loves his GTR, in spite of it having paddles)

 

Enjoying the commentary in this thread! Where's the popcorn?

 

That is the point I'm trying to make, where do you stop? The argument that is being made for paddle vs manual can also be used for auto vs paddle.

Let's look at the reasoning for using a paddleshift vs a manual:

1) The computer can shift faster than any human can.
2) I can concentrate more on my driving.
3) Reduces the chances of human error.
4) Will make me faster around the track.


All of the above can also be achieved by going fully automatic over paddle shift.

The manufacturer gets to put you in a computer controlled box with electric-manual paddle shift transmissions. They control and limit everything you do and that box will get smaller and smaller and smaller until people no longer control anything.

And I disagree, paddles do not belong in the cup car either. There is already auto blippers to reduce the error factor when it comes to the transmission.

 

I agree with this post 100%!! Where does all this computer and electric stuff stop, A GT3 should always be manual, ALWAYS!! The argument about DSG being faster is correct but as Heavychevy says a DSG box in manual mode will definately be faster!!! My GTR was faster when changing itself as any computer will be but thats not what a GT3 is about!!

 

Yeah, I was going to mention this... And on that odd track that shifting mid-corner is needed, just like you'd have to remove your hand from the wheel and grab the stick, you may have to remove your hand from the wheel and grab the paddle (which will always be in the same place - it's not like you have to search for it).
I don't understand the concept of shifting while crossed up.

Are you referring to the PDK buttons on the wheel? If so, I agree 100%. That is a big problem I had with the PDK when it came out..., turning and trying to find the button with the right finger motion so as not to downshift incorrectly, etc... I disliked the PDK configuration with the steering wheel mounted buttons.

However, for those with fixed paddles, upshift on right, downshift on left (or others with only one paddle, upshift is pull, downshift is push or vice versa, depending on driver preference), I don't see an issue with it.

If I am offering that much steering input on track that I'm crossed up, I'm generally not about to switch gears (in fact, I have used that as a tool - don't switch gears until my hands opened up to the proximity of the paddle).

Oh, and #5 to your list - paddle shifting is fun. Hearing all of the mechanical stuff working when I hit the paddle is itself a symphony of noises that offers its own reward. Flip - Click! - BANG! RPM's drop, boost kicks in, acceleration G's resume without interruption. Intoxicating...

 

I have zero desire to own a GT3 with a PDK gearbox, but that said, I think they should offer it. It's all about giving your customers what they want and letting them decide. If more people purchase PDK GT3 then the rest of us should be happy that their purchases will be contributing to the success of the GT class cars and ensured their continuation into the future.

Personally, I'd hate to think that all these years of perfecting my heel-and-toe downshift skills would be gone and forgotten. There's just something 'manly' about rowing your own gears. Possibly soon it'll be 'OLD manly'.

 

I think you are looking at this in a very negative way. I see a PDK gearbox as just a different way of shifting gears. Yes, it is not as interactive as a manual and feels a bit different in the way you control the car.

But to compare it to a full automatic is unfair imo, it does give you that F1 race car feeling when you pull the paddles which a lot of people love. I think, and hope, that this is the reason why most people buy flappy paddle boxes. Not because it's easier to drive or .5 sec faster around a track.
It's just different from a manual, not a robot to eliminate driver input/errors.

With that said, I would get the manual for my GT3 every day of the week.

 

Only because threw aren't many pure sports cars left and people are discussing the GT3 as if its purpose is the same as these other cars out. And the purposes and ideals behind the cars are completely different. If the GT3 goes paddle shift it will only be a matter of time before that's all there is and the original concept of the car is lost. Like preservinga national forest.

They could pdk every other car on the planet, just please not the gt3