Does seem odd that there is an argument as to whether or not it should be even offered. Put it on the options list; if no one orders it... there you go. Is the world really going to end if there are GT3s running around with PDK? Complain when the choice is taken away entirely - seems to more of a "you need to be a real driver to own a (insert cult car here); anyone can be fast in a (insert poser paddle car here)" argument. If you like manuals, buy manuals; seems a little too Tea Party to want to decide for everyone else. Let the market decide; world didn't end when Porsche made an SUV. Still spinning after the station wagon. Pretty sure it will survive paddles in the GT3. They made a lot of money on the first two mistakes...

 

Yes... Yes it will.

 

I hate to break this to you, but a good set of adjustable sway bars is worth almost that much time on a regular circuit. Wanna bet the cars Porsche compared to had some wonky stock ones so they could magnify their claims (PCCB anyone)?


You forget we are talking about 911's here, there isn't all THAT much difference between any of them. Relative to the GT3 the Turbo is slightly behind in terms of being a track car, relative to the rest of the world, the Turbo is pretty much a track car other than hardcore variants of other cars.

My definition of a track car is one that can be driven FAST on track for hours on end without worry. And the Turbo is more than capable. It's not as finely tuned as the GT3, but the changes are quite small.

Especially when it only weighs a couple hundred more lbs than the GT3. Also especially when you can get one barely optioned. Look through the suspension, the design is the same, the motor is nearly the same, chassis pretty much the same. The biggest difference is the adjustability of the GT3 suspension components, of which all can be swapped to the Turbo (other than maybe the shocks).

Once you got all of this crap on the GT3 and it too weighs 3400-3500 lbs then it will no longer be a track car either according to your criteria (or mine).

Didn't want, and had not developed or tested yet are two different things. Why would Porsche not want the dynamic engine mounts or any of the other stuff you listed? Please explain.

 

Bingo .

 

I am not saying that the Turbo is incapable of track use . I am saying that the Turbo buyer is geneally using the car for street use wheras the Gt3 and Gt3RS have chosen the track at the car's primary use (most of the time).

Also one can not compare the PDK units of Porsches motorsport car build against a mass produced street version used in cars on dealership lots .

So if Porsche offered PDK and Dfi in the first gen 991 Gt3 .. it has some expense risk exposure in terms of warranty and maintenance .

Otherwise they would simply offer BOTH .
Those who want either woild be given a choice .

I am not even declaring that one is better or worse than the other .
I am saying that a choice places a variety for the buyer when he selects his car.

 

i think the stick shift community doesn`t have to worry about the future of the manual in a GT3 or GT2, at least not for the next 15 years or so.
If there would be any plans to discontinue it, Porsche wouldn`t have invested serious money in the new 7-speed manual.

it´s quite the opposite imho. i think Porsche sees this as a chance vs the competition now and that´s clever!
Lambo, Ferrari, Aston, Audi, Nissan, Lexus, Mercedes etc. are going the one-sided "automatic only" way with their performance cars,
while more and more sportscar enthusiasts praise Porsche for their commitment to keep the manual.
a true tribute to old school driving pleasure, which makes the brand even more admirable.

i rather see others offering a manual again than Porsche discontinue it but as easy_button said,
i just think they should offer both versions and let the customer have a choice.

 

There are some 997 Turbo's I track with that get around the track just fine...extremely quickly.

Anyway, there is so much BS and misinformation on these forums about PDK. I've lived with PDK now for 3 years with more track time on PDK I bet than anyone on any forums. PDK is really good in both manual mode and auto mode. PDK is fun to use as well.

 

If no one orders it, Porsche lost money. Porsche's aren't made of lego's, you don't just snap a piece on and go with it. You know Porsche aren't going to put PDK on a GT3 without months and months of R$D which costs them a lot of money.

Porsche does not sell a ton of GT3's so it's not like they can afford to mess up on this one. 911 sales (like all sports cars) are way down from just a few years ago. Risk vs Reward. 911 sales still declined in 2010 with the intro of PDK.

Maybe Porsche have done their homework and aren't seeing the return on investment they needed on it and don't want to add it to anything else. It's not as simple as just making it an option. I'm sure you guys are smarter than that.

 

Just curious, how much R&D is required to mate a 911 motor and transmission to a 911? Unless they sticking with the current motor, it's done... If that is the reason, why wouldn't they just stick with the current 4.0, do no R&D and sell every single one?

Only checked a couple of sources, but luxury car sales (even Porsche) are actually up for 2011 and blaming PDK for declining 911 sales seems a little disingenuous. Tiptronic didn't kill them, nothing will. Blame Caymans and Boxsters passing them and the station wagon being more comfortable and faster, maybe; but not PDK.

For the Panny owners, please forgive the station wagon reference - happen to love mine.

The 991 GT3 should be pretty amazing (based on the numbers the "pedestrian" models are showing) regardless of which transmission goes in.

Especially with the twin clutch, paddles do have a place in "driver's" cars - only thing about my old M3 that I really miss is the jerky, high strung, only behaved right around redline, SMG transmission. Manual C2S did feel more refined, despite having to use the left foot.

Will agree, that the PDK in the PTT does make things "easy"; but the idea of bouncing off the rev limiter in paddle shift GT3 does not sound like a bad way to spend a few hours. Especially if you have drive home afterwards in bumper to bumper traffic...

 

I'm glad someone around here is paying attention and thinking. The continued claims that the PDK can't be mated to the Metzger crankcase are really ridiculous. When the DFI engines came out in 2009 what happened? The Getrag gearbox in the Caymans got a new casting for the new engine's bolt pattern. The Aisin gearbox in the 997 Carrera got a new casting for the new engine's bolt pattern. If Porsche had ever wanted to mate the PDK to the Metzger crankcase they would have just made another casting.

But the reality is that Porsche really is looking to be playing with Legos going forward. I suspect that the bean counters looked at the future of the GT3 line and knew that in a few years they would be retiring the Metzger crankcase and deemed it not worth doing another variant of the PDK housing. Instead they'll just keep making them the same way they are until they roll out both a new engine and a new gearbox in the 991 GT3. If Porsche chooses not to make a PDK GT3 it's not going to be R&D cost based because as you've already pointed out, the parts are already there to put together this new Lego toy. If they don't make a PDK 991 GT3 it will be a marketing decision.

 

Latest EVO magazine reports that Porsche is testing PDK in 991 GT3.

 

make a picture of the report and prove it, thx.

 

I believe the GT3 will not be offered with the current generation PDK because of durability issues. Talk with people who tune PDK turbos.

 

True they could make a new case for the PDK to fit the Metzger split case motor. I'm sure it's not a durability issue as new Turbo motor is DFI and putting out 500HP. Is it marketing decision...or something production oriented...like no more Metzger motors in the near future. "Legos going forward" comment is spot on and dates back to all the shared parts with the first Boxster and 996.

 

It does't seem to matter how many times you tell people this, they all think "PDK Can't be mated to the metzger engine" its annoyingly stupid to think that it can't!!!!!!