I did it! Swapped out my 997.1 GT3 for a 7.2 RS.
#1
10-26-2011, 03:31 AM
I did it! Swapped out my 997.1 GT3 for a 7.2 RS.
Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I flip-flopped one last time and pulled the trigger on the RS. After 4 years in my 7.1GT3 I was itching to do something different so after deciding to keep the car (temporarily), I seriously considered the 3.9 Sharkwerks conversion. Alex was super responsive and thorough in responding to my emails for additional information and questions (I had several), and that inspired a lot of confidence. Even now, the idea of a 500hp, 8,800 RPM Metzger flat-6 is massively appealing. But as I ultimately explained to Alex after deciding against it, it would need to be a car I planned to keep forever to go down this path because I know my personality and once I did the motor, next would be suspension, sport buckets, etc., etc., etc., and I didn’t want to go down that path again. Been there, done that.
I have about 100 miles on my new RS now, for a total of 1,300 miles. I was fortunate enough to have it become available locally (2011 White / Red), so I was able to meet the original owner who also happens to work at the same company as I do. He is insanely meticulous and the car is in absolutely perfect condition. It had never been driven in the rain, had its first oil change at 1k miles, is very well equipped, and has the steel rotors which I wanted. The RS gods were smiling on me and I feel like it was part of their plan to have me end up in this car. Heck, the person I purchased it from even has the initials RS for his name so RS if you’re reading this, thank you! I love the car.
For the benefit of others who might want to make a decision to get an RS (possibly switching from a 7.1 GT3 as I did) I’ll share a few of my initial impressions here. Again, these are initial impression since I’ve had the car for less than a week now. I know I really appreciated similar posts and they really helped me a lot. There were actually very few surprises for me getting into the RS for the first time because of all the reviews and posts I had read prior.
IMPORTANT: For baseline comparison purposes, my 7.1 GT3 had a Cargraphic #6 exhaust, GIAC ECU flash update, and RS LWFW. These mods were all done in the first month of ownership roughly 4 years ago, so I no longer recall how a virgin 7.1 GT3 feels and drives. For tires over the course of 30k miles, I went through 2 (or 3?) sets for the OE Corsas, 1 set of Pilots Sports (not the cups), and ended with a new set of Bridgestone RE11s. My favorites were the Corsas, but you cannot get those right now. I didn’t care for the Michelins. I liked the RE11s a lot. But I am digressing because this thread is about my thoughts in 7.1 GT3 vs 7.2GT3RS, so …
Power Delivery
The added pull is definitely more noticeable with the RS when driving around town -- more so than I expected. The car is still in break-in period so I’m respecting that by not pushing the engine very hard, but the difference is still noticeable. I never dyno’d my 7.1GT3 after the full exhaust (header, cat, center, w/ no sides) so I may have given up some low end torque relative to stock. Perhaps that’s contributing to what I’m feeling and why so noticeable (i.e., that combined w/ the fact that the 3.8L does in fact produce more torque than the 3.6L).
Handling
So far, I’ve haven’t pushed the car hard in the turns (I spend a lot of time getting to know my car before pushing it) but qualitatively it feels more planted in the turns. If this is in-fact true I cannot say for sure but it feels that way, which inspires more confidence in the car, which will ultimately make you drive it faster (or at least me anyway). Sitting in the car as a passenger and completely unsolicited, my wife commented on how the car felt better connected to the road. All of this is consistent with what I had read from reviews and forums prior to driving the car, so no real surprises here and mainly validation. Also, as written / reported elsewhere, the steering does feel a tad bit heavier but every bit as connected as in the 7.1 GT3. Kinda contriubtes to the feeling of plantedness.
Excitement
Out of the box, a stock RS is less exciting to drive than my 7.1 GT3 was. But that’s not a fair comparison because my 7.1 had some key excitement enhancers. The RS OE exhaust cannot possibly compare to the sound of a full aftermarket exhaust like I had on my 7.1 GT3. Since for me, sound is a key factor in what makes a car exciting to drive, this is the biggest factor contributing to my lead-in statement.
The other notable difference is “rev-ability” of the motor. As of right now, the RS revs too slow for my liking. I actually need to adjust my downshifts because I’m too fast for the car. That’s not a boast or anything like that -- it’s just is what it is and there are plenty of drivers out there faster than me. With my 7.1 GT3 the car “barked” on downshifts. It was all very smooth (easy to get perfectly matched downshifts everytime), and done in an instant. With the RS, the engine is slower to rev and I need to work a little harder to get a smooth downshift as I wait for the engine to rev to where I need it. I contribute the faster revs of my 7.1 to the full exhaust (w/ high-flow cats), GIAC throttle remapping, and lighter 3.6L pistons (not necessarily in that order). The other factor that might be contributing to the difference is that my old car had 30k miles so the shifter wasn’t quite as tight and “clickety” as a new RS. This might be affecting me as well. It’s hard to say.
Regarding both issues above, I expect that exhaust and ECU update on the RS will get me back to that really happy place, and then some. Visually, the car is definitely more exciting with its wider / more muscular rear, and that’s something the car is born with and cannot be had through mods (short of extensive bodywork).
Road Noise
I posted about this a little while back. I had heard mixed things regarding road noise on the RS and opinions varied, widely. Of course, because of the reduced sound deadening material to reduce weight, road noise it going to be louder than on the std GT3 – and it is. In my quest for details, I read comments ranging from reports of bleeding ears to not noticing a thing (both clearly exaggerations). Well, for me it’s somewhere in between. It also depends A LOT on the road surface, which seems like an obvious statement but I’m not too proud
On the I-405 (Seattle area) at about 70mph, it’s sufficiently loud in the car that it makes having a conversation with passenger occupant difficult. So I can see how on a long trip this might be an issue depending on the person. Even at lesser speeds on the back roads, a similar situation exists and you often find yourself leaning over the center console to catch a word or part of a sentence you missed. It’s definitely not bad IMO, and I could live with it but I’m choosing to have Colin at Cantrell apply some Dynamat to key areas. I’m limiting him to 15lbs, and I’ll gain that back and then some in exhaust so the car will be net lighter when done. Is this sacrilegious to do to an RS? Hell yes it is, and I will ask the RS gods for forgiveness. But unlike exhaust noise, road noise isn’t something that I find exciting to listen to nor is it something I can control like keeping the engine at the right load / rpm if trying to have a conversation.
Ingress / Egress / Seating Position
Getting in and out of the RS is a bit more of a chore than in and out of my 7.1GT3, which had the standard sport seats. Another totally obvious statement, BUT not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Since diverting the bulk of my free time away from racing to coding, I’ve packed on a few extra pounds in the wrong places, but even with that find the fit in the sport buckets to be surprisingly comfortable (unlike the C/F OMP seats in my racecar which I had no hope of fitting into as of last year when I sold it!). I’m 6’2” with some extra padding, which I plan to loose once coding project complete.
Regardless of size / weight you need to adjust how you get into and out of the car. Obviously, you cannot just slide in an out like a normal car. Once seated, it’s much nicer than the standard sport seats IMO. I can see how the seats might be an issue for some people as a daily, but they're not going to be an issue for me as the pros outweigh the cons. But I'd recommend somebody sit in them first if in doubt. Oh, did I mention the sport buckets look *****in'?
I’m not sure if the steering wheel in the RS is slighty larger in diameter than the one I had in my 7.1 GT3 or if the seat sits slightly higher, or both. But I find that the steering wheel is closer to my legs in the RS and that interferes with the full range of motion as I’m steering the car (yes, I’ve adjusted the tilt all the way up). I remember it being the same on my ’02 Turbo back when I had that car in 2001. I had orderd a different steering wheel for that car (smaller dia.) but sold it before the wheel arrived because the Turbo didn’t excite me. Colin at Cantrell lowered the seat for me 3/4" by fabricating a custom bracket that retains the slider mechanism. He could have gone an additional 3/4" by giving up the slider, but I think 3/4" will be fine (haven’t tried it yet).
Tires
You only have one option if you want to keep the OE sizing. MPSCs. I’m not going to mince words here. That sux. Let me say it again. That sux. It’s was the single biggest factor weighing on me in terms of my decision to go forward with the RS. Hopefully, Michelin will come out with the 325 sizing in the Super Sports as rumor has it might be the case. The N-spec MPSCs seem to be an improvement on the earlier MPSCs in terms of streetabiliy – from what I’ve read anyway. If sizing availability really turns out to be a problem for me, there’s always 18s but that means spending more money and I like the way the 19s look better than the 18s on the RS.
Overall
A lot of the above focused on the negative and / or issues in the spirit of being objective in order to help others make informed decisions as other posters have helped me. Everything commented on above came as no surprise to me – good and bad -- because of such posts and reviews. Thanks to those who contributed. It helped me make an informed decision.
I love the RS!!!! The car is everything I hoped it would be, and more. I definitely had some reservations getting into the car (and hence the flip-flopping) but I’m very happy with my decision and have zero regrets. Most of the minor issues (for me) listed above are easily dealt with, and being dealt with.
The car certainly delivers in the handling department (from what I can tell so far), and if that’s not the most important factor for a person then other cars beckon. Overall bump in refinement inside and out -- too many things to mention but much more than a facelift IMO. Visually, it’s definitely more exciting as mentioned above, and the car has more exclusivity / cachet. Things like exclusivity & cachet probably shouldn’t matter and I feel shallow even mentioning it, but they add to the car's appeal for me. Sorry.
I also like that the gen2 GT cars has active stability control. I’m not too proud to say that! Some feel such countermeasures to guard against driver ineptness have no place in the GT3, but I don’t subscribe to that. I’ll probably take my RS to the track now whereas I didn’t w/ my gen 1 car. Knowing that I have a safety net should I run out of talent to keep me from stuffing my very expensive, uninsured-on-the-track daily into a tirewall, etc. is a good piece of mind. Am I going to rely on it? No. But it’s sure good to know it’s there. That holds true for the car on the public roads as well, which is the car’s main role in life for me as a daily. Public roads are much more dangerous places than racetracks (deer, two-way traffic, drunk drivers, texters, etc.), so I like having the safety net there even more (esp. in Seattle area where we get a lot of rain and the drivers suk).
Kind of a long post I know and I'll provide more details as I get more time in the car. Again, all of the above are initial impressions of a car I've had for less than a week now.
I have about 100 miles on my new RS now, for a total of 1,300 miles. I was fortunate enough to have it become available locally (2011 White / Red), so I was able to meet the original owner who also happens to work at the same company as I do. He is insanely meticulous and the car is in absolutely perfect condition. It had never been driven in the rain, had its first oil change at 1k miles, is very well equipped, and has the steel rotors which I wanted. The RS gods were smiling on me and I feel like it was part of their plan to have me end up in this car. Heck, the person I purchased it from even has the initials RS for his name so RS if you’re reading this, thank you! I love the car.
For the benefit of others who might want to make a decision to get an RS (possibly switching from a 7.1 GT3 as I did) I’ll share a few of my initial impressions here. Again, these are initial impression since I’ve had the car for less than a week now. I know I really appreciated similar posts and they really helped me a lot. There were actually very few surprises for me getting into the RS for the first time because of all the reviews and posts I had read prior.
IMPORTANT: For baseline comparison purposes, my 7.1 GT3 had a Cargraphic #6 exhaust, GIAC ECU flash update, and RS LWFW. These mods were all done in the first month of ownership roughly 4 years ago, so I no longer recall how a virgin 7.1 GT3 feels and drives. For tires over the course of 30k miles, I went through 2 (or 3?) sets for the OE Corsas, 1 set of Pilots Sports (not the cups), and ended with a new set of Bridgestone RE11s. My favorites were the Corsas, but you cannot get those right now. I didn’t care for the Michelins. I liked the RE11s a lot. But I am digressing because this thread is about my thoughts in 7.1 GT3 vs 7.2GT3RS, so …
Power Delivery
The added pull is definitely more noticeable with the RS when driving around town -- more so than I expected. The car is still in break-in period so I’m respecting that by not pushing the engine very hard, but the difference is still noticeable. I never dyno’d my 7.1GT3 after the full exhaust (header, cat, center, w/ no sides) so I may have given up some low end torque relative to stock. Perhaps that’s contributing to what I’m feeling and why so noticeable (i.e., that combined w/ the fact that the 3.8L does in fact produce more torque than the 3.6L).
Handling
So far, I’ve haven’t pushed the car hard in the turns (I spend a lot of time getting to know my car before pushing it) but qualitatively it feels more planted in the turns. If this is in-fact true I cannot say for sure but it feels that way, which inspires more confidence in the car, which will ultimately make you drive it faster (or at least me anyway). Sitting in the car as a passenger and completely unsolicited, my wife commented on how the car felt better connected to the road. All of this is consistent with what I had read from reviews and forums prior to driving the car, so no real surprises here and mainly validation. Also, as written / reported elsewhere, the steering does feel a tad bit heavier but every bit as connected as in the 7.1 GT3. Kinda contriubtes to the feeling of plantedness.
Excitement
Out of the box, a stock RS is less exciting to drive than my 7.1 GT3 was. But that’s not a fair comparison because my 7.1 had some key excitement enhancers. The RS OE exhaust cannot possibly compare to the sound of a full aftermarket exhaust like I had on my 7.1 GT3. Since for me, sound is a key factor in what makes a car exciting to drive, this is the biggest factor contributing to my lead-in statement.
The other notable difference is “rev-ability” of the motor. As of right now, the RS revs too slow for my liking. I actually need to adjust my downshifts because I’m too fast for the car. That’s not a boast or anything like that -- it’s just is what it is and there are plenty of drivers out there faster than me. With my 7.1 GT3 the car “barked” on downshifts. It was all very smooth (easy to get perfectly matched downshifts everytime), and done in an instant. With the RS, the engine is slower to rev and I need to work a little harder to get a smooth downshift as I wait for the engine to rev to where I need it. I contribute the faster revs of my 7.1 to the full exhaust (w/ high-flow cats), GIAC throttle remapping, and lighter 3.6L pistons (not necessarily in that order). The other factor that might be contributing to the difference is that my old car had 30k miles so the shifter wasn’t quite as tight and “clickety” as a new RS. This might be affecting me as well. It’s hard to say.
Regarding both issues above, I expect that exhaust and ECU update on the RS will get me back to that really happy place, and then some. Visually, the car is definitely more exciting with its wider / more muscular rear, and that’s something the car is born with and cannot be had through mods (short of extensive bodywork).
Road Noise
I posted about this a little while back. I had heard mixed things regarding road noise on the RS and opinions varied, widely. Of course, because of the reduced sound deadening material to reduce weight, road noise it going to be louder than on the std GT3 – and it is. In my quest for details, I read comments ranging from reports of bleeding ears to not noticing a thing (both clearly exaggerations). Well, for me it’s somewhere in between. It also depends A LOT on the road surface, which seems like an obvious statement but I’m not too proud
On the I-405 (Seattle area) at about 70mph, it’s sufficiently loud in the car that it makes having a conversation with passenger occupant difficult. So I can see how on a long trip this might be an issue depending on the person. Even at lesser speeds on the back roads, a similar situation exists and you often find yourself leaning over the center console to catch a word or part of a sentence you missed. It’s definitely not bad IMO, and I could live with it but I’m choosing to have Colin at Cantrell apply some Dynamat to key areas. I’m limiting him to 15lbs, and I’ll gain that back and then some in exhaust so the car will be net lighter when done. Is this sacrilegious to do to an RS? Hell yes it is, and I will ask the RS gods for forgiveness. But unlike exhaust noise, road noise isn’t something that I find exciting to listen to nor is it something I can control like keeping the engine at the right load / rpm if trying to have a conversation.
Ingress / Egress / Seating Position
Getting in and out of the RS is a bit more of a chore than in and out of my 7.1GT3, which had the standard sport seats. Another totally obvious statement, BUT not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Since diverting the bulk of my free time away from racing to coding, I’ve packed on a few extra pounds in the wrong places, but even with that find the fit in the sport buckets to be surprisingly comfortable (unlike the C/F OMP seats in my racecar which I had no hope of fitting into as of last year when I sold it!). I’m 6’2” with some extra padding, which I plan to loose once coding project complete.
Regardless of size / weight you need to adjust how you get into and out of the car. Obviously, you cannot just slide in an out like a normal car. Once seated, it’s much nicer than the standard sport seats IMO. I can see how the seats might be an issue for some people as a daily, but they're not going to be an issue for me as the pros outweigh the cons. But I'd recommend somebody sit in them first if in doubt. Oh, did I mention the sport buckets look *****in'?
I’m not sure if the steering wheel in the RS is slighty larger in diameter than the one I had in my 7.1 GT3 or if the seat sits slightly higher, or both. But I find that the steering wheel is closer to my legs in the RS and that interferes with the full range of motion as I’m steering the car (yes, I’ve adjusted the tilt all the way up). I remember it being the same on my ’02 Turbo back when I had that car in 2001. I had orderd a different steering wheel for that car (smaller dia.) but sold it before the wheel arrived because the Turbo didn’t excite me. Colin at Cantrell lowered the seat for me 3/4" by fabricating a custom bracket that retains the slider mechanism. He could have gone an additional 3/4" by giving up the slider, but I think 3/4" will be fine (haven’t tried it yet).
Tires
You only have one option if you want to keep the OE sizing. MPSCs. I’m not going to mince words here. That sux. Let me say it again. That sux. It’s was the single biggest factor weighing on me in terms of my decision to go forward with the RS. Hopefully, Michelin will come out with the 325 sizing in the Super Sports as rumor has it might be the case. The N-spec MPSCs seem to be an improvement on the earlier MPSCs in terms of streetabiliy – from what I’ve read anyway. If sizing availability really turns out to be a problem for me, there’s always 18s but that means spending more money and I like the way the 19s look better than the 18s on the RS.
Overall
A lot of the above focused on the negative and / or issues in the spirit of being objective in order to help others make informed decisions as other posters have helped me. Everything commented on above came as no surprise to me – good and bad -- because of such posts and reviews. Thanks to those who contributed. It helped me make an informed decision.
I love the RS!!!! The car is everything I hoped it would be, and more. I definitely had some reservations getting into the car (and hence the flip-flopping) but I’m very happy with my decision and have zero regrets. Most of the minor issues (for me) listed above are easily dealt with, and being dealt with.
The car certainly delivers in the handling department (from what I can tell so far), and if that’s not the most important factor for a person then other cars beckon. Overall bump in refinement inside and out -- too many things to mention but much more than a facelift IMO. Visually, it’s definitely more exciting as mentioned above, and the car has more exclusivity / cachet. Things like exclusivity & cachet probably shouldn’t matter and I feel shallow even mentioning it, but they add to the car's appeal for me. Sorry.
I also like that the gen2 GT cars has active stability control. I’m not too proud to say that! Some feel such countermeasures to guard against driver ineptness have no place in the GT3, but I don’t subscribe to that. I’ll probably take my RS to the track now whereas I didn’t w/ my gen 1 car. Knowing that I have a safety net should I run out of talent to keep me from stuffing my very expensive, uninsured-on-the-track daily into a tirewall, etc. is a good piece of mind. Am I going to rely on it? No. But it’s sure good to know it’s there. That holds true for the car on the public roads as well, which is the car’s main role in life for me as a daily. Public roads are much more dangerous places than racetracks (deer, two-way traffic, drunk drivers, texters, etc.), so I like having the safety net there even more (esp. in Seattle area where we get a lot of rain and the drivers suk).
Kind of a long post I know and I'll provide more details as I get more time in the car. Again, all of the above are initial impressions of a car I've had for less than a week now.
Last edited by rja; 10-26-2011 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Fix 2:00am typos
#4
10-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Hi Roland, I second Lig's post. Seriously well done to you man! You're going to be stoked and get her broken in so you can enjoy her even more
It was/is a real pleasure talking to you and thanks for the kind words!
It was/is a real pleasure talking to you and thanks for the kind words!
#5
10-26-2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks. I'm also changing the color scheme to quiet it down for the street. Here's how it will look next week once Colin and Queen City are done with it -- I will take photos and post when complete. I mocked these up in 3DS (several dozen mock-ups actually, finally settling on this).
#6
10-26-2011, 12:20 PM
Thanks. I'm also changing the color scheme to quiet it down for the street. Here's how it will look next week once Colin and Queen City are done with it -- I will take photos and post when complete. I mocked these up in 3DS (several dozen mock-ups actually, finally settling on this).
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#8
10-26-2011, 03:19 PM
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#11
10-28-2011, 07:03 PM
Seat Bracket
Here's that modified seat bracket that Cantrell Motorsports fabed for me. This lowers the seat 3/4". This addresses the issue above where I'm not getting quite enought room between the steering wheel and my legs. Didn't have this issue on my 7.1GT3 but do on the RS. This should solve the problem (haven't been able to test yet). As mentioned, this retains the slider mechanisim. He can go another 3/4" by loosing the slider.
He asked me if I wanted it power coated black, but I like the Al look.
He asked me if I wanted it power coated black, but I like the Al look.
#12
10-28-2011, 07:09 PM
9lbs
Talked about the road noise issue above. Again, I could have lived with it but it is my daily (although I'll track this one, I swear!) and I like to take trips with my wife. She'll appreciate this so this one is for her. It was only 9lbs and as you can see, Cantrell did a pro job and got great coverage. I'll more than make this weight back with exhaust.
#13
10-28-2011, 07:15 PM
Decals
As part of swapping the red to white (see above 3D mockup of final scheme), Cantrell swapped out the red vinyl for grey today. I'm falling in love with my new car! Thanks Colin!!
[edit] I should add he was able to get me exactly the color I wanted for the decals so we didn't have the tail wagging the dog in terms of vinyl dictating the color or the accents. The paintwork will exactly match these.
[edit] I should add he was able to get me exactly the color I wanted for the decals so we didn't have the tail wagging the dog in terms of vinyl dictating the color or the accents. The paintwork will exactly match these.
Last edited by rja; 10-28-2011 at 10:09 PM.
