This is my personal customer delivered GT-R, vs a buddy of mine's GT3. For the record my GT-R is a premium model so it has Bridgestones, no the Dunlops. Despite that, we were only a second off Steve Millen's GT-R Dunlop time and faster than his 997 GT2 time. Our driver, Sam Hubinette has extensive experience in Vipers, Vettes and Porsches, but this was his first time behind the wheel of a GT-R. FWIW my stock GT-R also bested Claus' 997 GT-Street as well.

http://shinkaze.com/2008/11/my-gt-r-...illow-springs/

 

It would be interesting to get somone who actually can drive the GT3 without showboat drifting go against a GTR.


We have Boxsters with 200 HP that go around Willow Springs faster than 1:36. Drifting was cute and made good TV but its not the fast way around Willow Springs.


More intersting to me would be to see which car is faster on a handling course like Sears Point with similar tires and a real driver behind the wheel.

I agree with some of the comments in the video. GTR will make almost anyone look good. Conversely GT3 takes some skill to drive fast.

 

I think the point about the GT3 is that it drifts on its own..Rear engine rwd on sandy track with that power...It would be slower to try to NOT let the rear slide a bit.

 

Well the times are the times, and Sam Hubinette is hardly a beginner at this. To be honest he could have gone faster in both cars with more time behind the wheel. That lap time with the GT-R was his first experience ever in a GT-R, (he has a good amount with Porsche), As for the Boxster comment, I fully believe every boxster owner thinks his car is faster than a GT3, it appears to be a common theme here.

 

LOL! No delusions here that a 2.5 liter boxster is faster than a GT3 ....just pointing out that verified lap times of stock powered 10 year old spec boxsters on stock wheels with Toyo 888 are faster than your boy. Like I said. With a skilled driver who isnt showboating for the cameras Porsche GT3/2 will always be faster on track than the 3800lb GTR porker. For somone with less skill GTR will help compensate so its a perfect car for track driving posuers.

For a so called expert he was sure setting some slow times on Willow Springs for a GT3. Just look up some of the times for locals who drive the same car out there.

Here is much better assessment of GTR and GT2

http://magazines.drivers-republic.co...c/thetruth030/

 

There is nothing to argue here, people keep showing up to these head to heads in Porsches with garbage tires on them. The GT3 being faster drifting or drifting on it's own is nonsense. That time is not even close to a good representation of what the GT3 can do. I dont blame Hubinette though, he ran 1:31-1:32 in the Z06 and Viper and he was really trying, but you can only make due with what you're given. Whoever gave him that GT3 needs to put a good set of tires on before doing a comparo from now on, that was rediculous.

 

Any time a car drifts or seriously smokes its tires you absolutely are not looking at a quick lap. A stock cayman without an LSD in the back at an autocross I attended this last summer never drifted and never smoked while putting up some great times. Myself, in a Corvette, ran one lap that must have been fun to watch, because several people talked to me about it afterwards. I got lost on the course, hit a cone, and made a big sliding very sideways drift into the last turn. I got several compliments on my driving after that lap. I got no compliments after a lap 3 tries later that was 4 seconds (almost 10% on this course) faster. Smooth is fast, and tire smoke or drifts is absolutely not fast. So when you read road and track and they talk about steve millen "beautifully drifting" a car onto the straight while doing a timed lap, you are not reading about a car being driven to its potential.

I don't know GT-Rs or GT-3s on the track, and I'm not knocking the GT-R or its owners. But this test looks poor.

 

Thats awesome if a stock 986 went faster than 1:36. I harbor no illusions about the 986 being faster than a 997 gt3 either, its clearly not, but its one heck of a fun car to drive and I used to have one, and I miss it.

The GT-R and the 986 seem to have in common that they are pretty accessible to the average joe. Both cars are easy to drive at the limit.

Where can a guy like me find those times?

 

Here's a link to a corvette thread about willow springs.

1:32 in a poorly aligned (to GM's considerable shame Z06's come with crap alignment from the factory, and crap tires) C6 Z06.

1:30 in a C5 Z06 with a really good driver. 1:28 with sticky tires.

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f64/n...s-today-88051/

The C5 Z06 has worse tires than the GT3, worse power/weight. Do you really think a C5 Z06 is wildly faster than a 997 GT3? C5 Z06s are awesome, and awesome to drive, and awesome looking, but do you REALLY think its faster, driven to its limit, than a 997 GT3?

Same thread has discussion of a 1:32 in a bone stock late 90's viper. A far cry from todays ACR. And I'm pretty sure I saw a youtube vid once with a C6 Z06 running 1:26 and being beaten by a modded EVO in the process.

Again, I mean no disrespect to any car or anybodies efforts to make a test, but clearly we aren't seeing the potential of the GT3, and we may not be seeing the potential of the GTR either. Maybe we are seeing the ease of driving of the GT-R, how its fairly easy to reach its potential.

But I'd wager the title to all 8 of my cars/trucks that the GT3 can go a fair bit faster than 1:36 here. A C5 Z06 can apparently do 1:30

 

Possible, but keep in mind that Season 1 of Head to head was shot this past winter, and Season 2 when we dd the stock GT-R, COBB GT-R, GT3 and GT-Street was done in the hottest part of September.

Our times were actually pretty close to what Road and Track got. I just spent a weekend in the GT3, and I have to say it's more fun to drive than the GT-R (very visceral, very engaged), but the GT-R is clearly faster.

 

After I looked at the NASA lap records for Willow Springs, I'll join that bet with Checklist. A TTA car runs 1:29 there, and a GT3 is faster than stock than any TTA car, and I happen to know the owner of the TTA car that won Nationals and is likely the fastest TTA car in the country (was, now he's added power), not only would he break that TTA record, but he'd be faster in a GT3.

A GT3 is no use to you if you dont have the skills. But saying the GT-R is clearly faster is off, that I can assure you of.

 

Heavy, I regret that the results disappoint you, but the times are the times. The GT-R beating the Porsche at Willow is consistent with other 997 vs GT-R tests from that track.

This particular GT3 belongs to a friend of mine who graciously lent me his car last weekend. It's an absolute hoot to drive, but after plenty of seat time in both I can say with the authority of experience and data that the GT-R is clearly faster than the GT3.

We had 8 cars to test that day, and both the GT-R and GT3 could have done better with focused testing, but all cars that day had exactly 3 laps to do their best.

But then again, it's entirely possible Sam was bribed to throw the race.

 

A cute video but terrible comparison. If the GT-R was made to "compete" with a 911TT, pit it against a 911TT.

 

I agree, the 997tt would have been a more apt comparison, but we just did a COBB tuning GT-R vs. a TechArt GT-Street. we actually were not planning on running the stock GT-R and GT3, but we had two no shows (Hennessey Viper vs a 1,000hp+ 996) so we did the stockers since we had the time, the track, the crew and the driver. We also had Chris James available as a driver, he saw similar results as Sam, but since Sam was the Season 1 driver, we used him for season 2 as well.....that and Sam is a funny in a dorky sort of way on camera.

 

I'm not sure it matters what Road and Track got. A C5 Z06 ran 1:30 on that track with a very good driver (Andy Pilgrim, a pro Corvette driver) bone stock (and that means crappy tires). 1:28 with R compounds. I've seen another copy of that letter on another 'vette forum and it seems to be written by Pilgrim, who I am certain wouldn't bother with defending some wrung out 'vette. Indeed, his point was that a good sports car could hang with a good bike, not that the 'vette was faster than any other car.

And I simply offer that a 997 GT3 is no doubt faster than a C5 Z06. The Corvette is 3246 curb weight and 405 hp. The 997 GT3 is 3175 curb weight and 415 hp. So the Porsche has better power/weight. AFAIK there is no reason to believe that the C5 Z06 is faster than the 997 GT3 when properly driven near its limit.

So the 997 GT3 can do a bit better than whatever the c5 Z06 can do, which is a whole heap better than this test showed (as this test showed 6 seconds slower than whats reported for a C5 Z06).

This is what I want to say: NOBODY CARES HOW GOOD THE GT-R IS, WE ALL THINK ITS INTERESTING AND COOL, I just think its tiring watching great cars like the 997 GT3 get thrown udner the bus to promote the GT-R. If a good fair test is done with 2 or 5 cars driven to their limit and the GT-R wins, awesome. Go japan, go Nissan, go playstation.

But for goodness sake quit touting tests with crap times for the GT-Rs competition as proof that the GT-R is good. The R&T steve millen tests irk Porsche and Vette guys because the 997tt and C6 Z06 can go a whole lot faster at that track than wahts reported. Same here.

If the GT-R is quicker than the 997 GT3, so be it, I don't think anybody with a 997 GT3 would really care. Drive a 997 Turbo and listen to the turbine howl and feel it throw you back and sit in it, you won't dream of GT-Rs as strongly as you did before, i promise. Its a phenomenal car. Same or more 997 GT3. They are epic to drive, and I pay that compliment not lightly as I am truly a Corvette guy at heart. If the GT-R is quicker, Porsche drivers won't mind. Just let the Porsches show their potential in the tests and let the tests not be so preposterous.

good evenin & take care over the holiday