Albert Motorsport in Germany did my 996 Turbo engine rebuild, a huge loss
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I agree
Last edited by unvmy996; Feb 8, 2017 at 08:35 AM.
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The heat marks on the cap indicate a spun bearing. This was very likely a loss of lubrication, and although not posted, this was either cylinder 2 or 5 (last 2 rods to receive oil). OP has a video where you can see/hear exactly when the knock started, was after a sweeping bend at high RPM. Was this motor built with a gt2/3 multi pickup oil pump (probably not). Its unfortunate but if this didnt come apart during intial tune and break in, then it likely wasnt a hardware issue especially at the low power level it was tuned at.
All those commenting without any real world Porsche engine building experience should wait for the few with experience to comment.
All those commenting without any real world Porsche engine building experience should wait for the few with experience to comment.
The discoloration on the rod big end is indicative of a high friction condition likely due to oil starvation. It doesn't look to be a rod defect as it would generally show up as a clean break.
The final bill looks to be from Nov. '15. I don't know the terms of warranty, but I explain early on before I start a project that the motor is guaranteed to run satisfactory at initial start up and during a careful break in period but will not be covered at all under racing or competitive conditions. I do give a 90 day to 1 year warranty on my labor and parts are per individual manufacturer terms. I have had 3-4 minor problems where I admitted fault and made corrections at no cost to the customer. I've never been threatened with litigation or customer unsatisfaction face to face.
I do get people bringing motors to me that have failed that didn't preform to expectation built by others. I tell them their best option may be to take it back to the original builder. They seem to be looking for sympathy and a good deal the second time around. This is hard when didn't bring it to you the first time.
For all involved, hope it works out.
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The fact that the builder used cheap rods and even felt the need to hide that fact by painting over the logo's gives me 100% reason to say he is at fault; it brings every single thing he did into question.
I'm my opinion he should get every bit of his cash back and a new rebuild-able core, which I would take elsewhere! Who cares if he is being difficult now. I would not blame him for his hesitation in dealing with that place!
I'm my opinion he should get every bit of his cash back and a new rebuild-able core, which I would take elsewhere! Who cares if he is being difficult now. I would not blame him for his hesitation in dealing with that place!
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https://translate.google.com/transla...531&edit-text=
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Not really the same one, isn't it? I've seen a lot of pics of this engine, including ones sent by Albert during the build, and all of them show rods from the same direction, ie from the front of the engine, so the other side of rods is invisble. OTH I got pics of that carnage right away when the engine was opened mid November.
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If they agreed upon the grey rods the images of the engine-build would've shown that they used different rod, did Kai ask about that?
OTH I got pics of that carnage right away when the engine was opened mid November.
I'm no engine expert, so I can only rely on those who seem to be more knowledgeable in that area...
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RENNPLEUELSTAHL 911 944 964 968 993 996 Turbo Pleuel
Rennpleuel aus hochfestem geschmiedetem Stahl €900,- (net + tax)
The car is and has been a dedicated track (and Ring) tool and has withstanded that use years until this Albert's rebuild. It was supposed to be good and reliable, not cheap but worth the money. It turned up to be more expensive that promised, delivered less power than before and didn't last long. And now Albert tries do deny all responsibility referring to "broken seal" etc BS.
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I can understand both sides (from what they presented here and on the German board - that's all information I have about this case).
And though I'm not sure if every thing Albert did before/whilst the build was correct (read the invoice/pricing part), I can see no fault in persisting to have the engine inspected by him or an independent expert witness and denying any claims when denied that.
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I have no skin in this game but do have an observation/question... How is it that in the second rod picture (below and in the first post) the gray paint is covering the dings in the side of the rod? If it were painted by the builder and went thru the hell the rod seems to have gone thru that paint would be NOT be inside of those dings in the rod. Look at the first pic, there are dings thru the gold coating, then the second, the gray paint covers the dings. 
Last edited by mxracer; Feb 9, 2017 at 05:43 AM.
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Apparently it was not paint as initially thought but some media blasting (clarified by the peron who took the engine apart), so the manufacturer's name wss not painted over but blown away.
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To me, assuming the fact that the rods were painted over for some reason by the engine builder shows deceipt on their part. They are trying to hide something which does not bode well for Albert. Not good!
Hindsight being 20/20, the involved parties should have agreed upon a 3rd independent party to do the post mortem tear down and evaluation.
I truly hope Kai is made whole in all of this. Fingers crossed. Albert would be wise to work out some amiable solution as the financial damage that a thread like this can cause to their business over the years is extensive. No way would I take my car to Albert after reading this story.
Hindsight being 20/20, the involved parties should have agreed upon a 3rd independent party to do the post mortem tear down and evaluation.
I truly hope Kai is made whole in all of this. Fingers crossed. Albert would be wise to work out some amiable solution as the financial damage that a thread like this can cause to their business over the years is extensive. No way would I take my car to Albert after reading this story.
Last edited by pwdrhound; Feb 9, 2017 at 08:52 AM.
Dear Readers,
I take the following position for my company to the accusations
Kai Tavakka, a bank manager from Finland, had asked us about a year ago to revise his Porsche 996 turbo engine tuned by a Cologne company to 600 hp.
The car is driven by Kai Tavakka at the Nürburgring, he reports this in worldwide Internet forums.
There is no road registration for the car in today's condition. For this purpose, the car is located at the Nürburgring race track at a company which has provided us with the car revision.
Kai Tavakka is unknown in our company.
Through numerous e-mails, telephone calls, and the company of the Nürburgring, which was commissioned to us, the order was ultimately determined, documented and executed by us as required.
All, without exception, all parts, which are installed by us, originate from Porsche, and especially for the connecting rods, from a certified company whose test documents of the TÜV (Technical Supervisory Association) are present in our company and can be submitted to court if necessary. No bonuses or technically labile parts have been installed!
Kai Tavakka's engine-mounted connecting rods are the TÜV-certified high-performance parts, which we have used for decades in our racing engines with up to 1200 hp. Meanwhile hundreds of times.
In the meantime, the manufacturer of the connecting rod would inform us about the cost of the engine repair, if the material was missing from the connecting rod. The connecting rods were, of course, not painted but gold anodized by the manufacturer.
The engine has been sealed by our company to secure the construction site, as is customary in racing engines.
Due to the fact that the catalytic converters on the engine were also defective, the car was put on a performance dyno and reconciled after our work. The performance again was just over 600 HP, as before also.
We denied further desired increases in performance and extensive conversions, and an increase in the loading pressure, as requested by Kai Tavakka.
Now after about 1 year we get the info that the engine should have broken after only 3000 km on the Nürburgring. This is documented by the damage pictures of a disassembled engine and a video in which a damaged engine is heard.
We ask Mr. Tavakka to provide us the car so that we can order an expert to clarify the cause of the damage. This rejects Kai Tavakka and tells us not to trust us anymore.
Kai Tavakka knows very well why he does not make the car available to a reviewer. The expert would immediately find that the engine was over revved.
Kai Tavakka has also rejected my offer for the preparation of a judicial evidence-based safety report, as well as providing the engine and the engine electronics to a testing laboratory.
Our connecting rod manufacturer is sure that the rod end has been damaged by an over-rev or a valve trimmer. I do not want to exclude this, but there are also other possibilities which could be considered, but which could only be determined after a precise inspection and analysis. Kai Tavakka is not interested in it.
He now wants us to purchase inexpensive spare parts for the repair of the engine, with subjective associations to the damage and to the order process, in order to motivate us to meet his wishes.
In order to underline his demands, he is launching a worldwide campaign in many forums.
We can not help Kai Tavakka, because he takes us every chance. Without seeing the car, we will not continue to work for Him and will not provide Him with any parts after this international agitations against us.
Jürgen Albert
I take the following position for my company to the accusations
Kai Tavakka, a bank manager from Finland, had asked us about a year ago to revise his Porsche 996 turbo engine tuned by a Cologne company to 600 hp.
The car is driven by Kai Tavakka at the Nürburgring, he reports this in worldwide Internet forums.
There is no road registration for the car in today's condition. For this purpose, the car is located at the Nürburgring race track at a company which has provided us with the car revision.
Kai Tavakka is unknown in our company.
Through numerous e-mails, telephone calls, and the company of the Nürburgring, which was commissioned to us, the order was ultimately determined, documented and executed by us as required.
All, without exception, all parts, which are installed by us, originate from Porsche, and especially for the connecting rods, from a certified company whose test documents of the TÜV (Technical Supervisory Association) are present in our company and can be submitted to court if necessary. No bonuses or technically labile parts have been installed!
Kai Tavakka's engine-mounted connecting rods are the TÜV-certified high-performance parts, which we have used for decades in our racing engines with up to 1200 hp. Meanwhile hundreds of times.
In the meantime, the manufacturer of the connecting rod would inform us about the cost of the engine repair, if the material was missing from the connecting rod. The connecting rods were, of course, not painted but gold anodized by the manufacturer.
The engine has been sealed by our company to secure the construction site, as is customary in racing engines.
Due to the fact that the catalytic converters on the engine were also defective, the car was put on a performance dyno and reconciled after our work. The performance again was just over 600 HP, as before also.
We denied further desired increases in performance and extensive conversions, and an increase in the loading pressure, as requested by Kai Tavakka.
Now after about 1 year we get the info that the engine should have broken after only 3000 km on the Nürburgring. This is documented by the damage pictures of a disassembled engine and a video in which a damaged engine is heard.
We ask Mr. Tavakka to provide us the car so that we can order an expert to clarify the cause of the damage. This rejects Kai Tavakka and tells us not to trust us anymore.
Kai Tavakka knows very well why he does not make the car available to a reviewer. The expert would immediately find that the engine was over revved.
Kai Tavakka has also rejected my offer for the preparation of a judicial evidence-based safety report, as well as providing the engine and the engine electronics to a testing laboratory.
Our connecting rod manufacturer is sure that the rod end has been damaged by an over-rev or a valve trimmer. I do not want to exclude this, but there are also other possibilities which could be considered, but which could only be determined after a precise inspection and analysis. Kai Tavakka is not interested in it.
He now wants us to purchase inexpensive spare parts for the repair of the engine, with subjective associations to the damage and to the order process, in order to motivate us to meet his wishes.
In order to underline his demands, he is launching a worldwide campaign in many forums.
We can not help Kai Tavakka, because he takes us every chance. Without seeing the car, we will not continue to work for Him and will not provide Him with any parts after this international agitations against us.
Jürgen Albert
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Posts: 5,551
From: tn
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Dear Readers,
I take the following position for my company to the accusations
Kai Tavakka, a bank manager from Finland, had asked us about a year ago to revise his Porsche 996 turbo engine tuned by a Cologne company to 600 hp.
The car is driven by Kai Tavakka at the Nürburgring, he reports this in worldwide Internet forums.
There is no road registration for the car in today's condition. For this purpose, the car is located at the Nürburgring race track at a company which has provided us with the car revision.
Kai Tavakka is unknown in our company.
Through numerous e-mails, telephone calls, and the company of the Nürburgring, which was commissioned to us, the order was ultimately determined, documented and executed by us as required.
All, without exception, all parts, which are installed by us, originate from Porsche, and especially for the connecting rods, from a certified company whose test documents of the TÜV (Technical Supervisory Association) are present in our company and can be submitted to court if necessary. No bonuses or technically labile parts have been installed!
Kai Tavakka's engine-mounted connecting rods are the TÜV-certified high-performance parts, which we have used for decades in our racing engines with up to 1200 hp. Meanwhile hundreds of times.
In the meantime, the manufacturer of the connecting rod would inform us about the cost of the engine repair, if the material was missing from the connecting rod. The connecting rods were, of course, not painted but gold anodized by the manufacturer.
The engine has been sealed by our company to secure the construction site, as is customary in racing engines.
Due to the fact that the catalytic converters on the engine were also defective, the car was put on a performance dyno and reconciled after our work. The performance again was just over 600 HP, as before also.
We denied further desired increases in performance and extensive conversions, and an increase in the loading pressure, as requested by Kai Tavakka.
Now after about 1 year we get the info that the engine should have broken after only 3000 km on the Nürburgring. This is documented by the damage pictures of a disassembled engine and a video in which a damaged engine is heard.
We ask Mr. Tavakka to provide us the car so that we can order an expert to clarify the cause of the damage. This rejects Kai Tavakka and tells us not to trust us anymore.
Kai Tavakka knows very well why he does not make the car available to a reviewer. The expert would immediately find that the engine was over revved.
Kai Tavakka has also rejected my offer for the preparation of a judicial evidence-based safety report, as well as providing the engine and the engine electronics to a testing laboratory.
Our connecting rod manufacturer is sure that the rod end has been damaged by an over-rev or a valve trimmer. I do not want to exclude this, but there are also other possibilities which could be considered, but which could only be determined after a precise inspection and analysis. Kai Tavakka is not interested in it.
He now wants us to purchase inexpensive spare parts for the repair of the engine, with subjective associations to the damage and to the order process, in order to motivate us to meet his wishes.
In order to underline his demands, he is launching a worldwide campaign in many forums.
We can not help Kai Tavakka, because he takes us every chance. Without seeing the car, we will not continue to work for Him and will not provide Him with any parts after this international agitations against us.
Jürgen Albert
I take the following position for my company to the accusations
Kai Tavakka, a bank manager from Finland, had asked us about a year ago to revise his Porsche 996 turbo engine tuned by a Cologne company to 600 hp.
The car is driven by Kai Tavakka at the Nürburgring, he reports this in worldwide Internet forums.
There is no road registration for the car in today's condition. For this purpose, the car is located at the Nürburgring race track at a company which has provided us with the car revision.
Kai Tavakka is unknown in our company.
Through numerous e-mails, telephone calls, and the company of the Nürburgring, which was commissioned to us, the order was ultimately determined, documented and executed by us as required.
All, without exception, all parts, which are installed by us, originate from Porsche, and especially for the connecting rods, from a certified company whose test documents of the TÜV (Technical Supervisory Association) are present in our company and can be submitted to court if necessary. No bonuses or technically labile parts have been installed!
Kai Tavakka's engine-mounted connecting rods are the TÜV-certified high-performance parts, which we have used for decades in our racing engines with up to 1200 hp. Meanwhile hundreds of times.
In the meantime, the manufacturer of the connecting rod would inform us about the cost of the engine repair, if the material was missing from the connecting rod. The connecting rods were, of course, not painted but gold anodized by the manufacturer.
The engine has been sealed by our company to secure the construction site, as is customary in racing engines.
Due to the fact that the catalytic converters on the engine were also defective, the car was put on a performance dyno and reconciled after our work. The performance again was just over 600 HP, as before also.
We denied further desired increases in performance and extensive conversions, and an increase in the loading pressure, as requested by Kai Tavakka.
Now after about 1 year we get the info that the engine should have broken after only 3000 km on the Nürburgring. This is documented by the damage pictures of a disassembled engine and a video in which a damaged engine is heard.
We ask Mr. Tavakka to provide us the car so that we can order an expert to clarify the cause of the damage. This rejects Kai Tavakka and tells us not to trust us anymore.
Kai Tavakka knows very well why he does not make the car available to a reviewer. The expert would immediately find that the engine was over revved.
Kai Tavakka has also rejected my offer for the preparation of a judicial evidence-based safety report, as well as providing the engine and the engine electronics to a testing laboratory.
Our connecting rod manufacturer is sure that the rod end has been damaged by an over-rev or a valve trimmer. I do not want to exclude this, but there are also other possibilities which could be considered, but which could only be determined after a precise inspection and analysis. Kai Tavakka is not interested in it.
He now wants us to purchase inexpensive spare parts for the repair of the engine, with subjective associations to the damage and to the order process, in order to motivate us to meet his wishes.
In order to underline his demands, he is launching a worldwide campaign in many forums.
We can not help Kai Tavakka, because he takes us every chance. Without seeing the car, we will not continue to work for Him and will not provide Him with any parts after this international agitations against us.
Jürgen Albert
Thread Starter
|
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Posts: 710
From: Finland, Luxembourg, Nürburgring
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We spoke a lot why the engine was not running well right after the delivery, interesting that you didn't tell that it was over-revved. As shown from the emails on PFF.de you told it was because of RWD conversion and (your) ECU tune and other electric faults when you inspected the car. The car was picked up with used semislicks in very rainy snowy conditions during early spring 2016, there is simply no way of over-revving it in those conditions 
I don't know what caused the engine failure, I thought the Chinese rods were the cause, but now many people also tell it has been an oil lubrication problem. I wonder how that happened. Interesting that Albert did not change new oil pump that I ordered from him.
Long story short, I had to pay approx. twice the cost he estimated in writing for the rebuild. He could not come single penny down in the price. I then got the car back but the engine did not work at all, and he REFUSED to help. Then, I fixed the engine by changing Variocam solenoid, but after 3000 km whole engine case is destroyed, with China rods inside that were sandblasted to not to show the brand name, and he refuses to help unless I bring the whole car to his shop. Like I told above, I would never bring the car back there, too much risk for me. I did ask for discounted parts or any sweetener after this catastrophe. After long discussions, he offered -10% for Porsche OEM engine parts. I provided him the parts list and waited for a long time just to get his -10% discounted prices, but he refused to give his prices, would have kept nice 40% profit on those ones but no. No sign of help.
Here's some more on that, http://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo...l#post13993780
P.S. I will be closing down this thread in near future. Before it starts to look to nasty..
I don't know what caused the engine failure, I thought the Chinese rods were the cause, but now many people also tell it has been an oil lubrication problem. I wonder how that happened. Interesting that Albert did not change new oil pump that I ordered from him.
Long story short, I had to pay approx. twice the cost he estimated in writing for the rebuild. He could not come single penny down in the price. I then got the car back but the engine did not work at all, and he REFUSED to help. Then, I fixed the engine by changing Variocam solenoid, but after 3000 km whole engine case is destroyed, with China rods inside that were sandblasted to not to show the brand name, and he refuses to help unless I bring the whole car to his shop. Like I told above, I would never bring the car back there, too much risk for me. I did ask for discounted parts or any sweetener after this catastrophe. After long discussions, he offered -10% for Porsche OEM engine parts. I provided him the parts list and waited for a long time just to get his -10% discounted prices, but he refused to give his prices, would have kept nice 40% profit on those ones but no. No sign of help.
Here's some more on that, http://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo...l#post13993780
P.S. I will be closing down this thread in near future. Before it starts to look to nasty..