I'm considering attending a DE at Watkins Glen later this month, and would appreciate opinions on the track. The main things I'm interested in are (a) how much fun the track is and (b) the safety of the track. I watched a couple of videos online and it seems that some areas of the track have very little runoff area, even coming out of turns, so if you go off a crash is likely (?).

 

I will be doing DE's also and had a friend tell me that Watkins Glen and Putnam Park are better for the novice than Mid-Ohio. Most of the advice I get involves 'jumping into the deep end of the pool' and I have been trying to wade in Good luck and I know you will have a BLAST!









PS ~ Race cars and rain don't mix too well.

 

Thanks for the input. Did your friend say why the Glen is better for the novice?

 

I just did a two day event at watkins glen last monday and tuesday.

It's a very unique and historic track that is an absolute blast. I wouldn't worry about the run off, there is plenty where it really matters. Novices should be fine anywhere as long as they have an instructor. It's intermediates who are becoming advanced where the accidents happen because you are truly dialing out the safety margin. Don't drive beyond your limits and you will be fine here.

most people don't truly understand how much elevation change it has:



you'll love it.

 

Sounds great, you've pretty much convinced me to go for it. Did you do the short or long course? The long one looks fun, and I like more 'technical' courses, like this one I went to this past weekend (lots of elevation changes and almost every turn is blind, so memory was key): http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/i...d=30&Itemid=22

 

I did Watkins Glen a few years ago with my Corvette and it was a lot of fun. I think the track does give a lot of chance for run off as said earlier.

However, there were a lot of 911s who got into trouble going into Turn 2 as you get ready to head up the hill on the back side. This turn can be taken very fast but given the heavy rear bias on these cars once you get off the throttle there you have to be ready to get back into it our you might find yourself along the left side of the wall there.

Just take it easy and learn the track and every session you'll be able to push it much further. I remember the first day there I couldn't even get into 5th gear. Second day I was full throttle up the back hill and well into 5th gear (150 + mph) before the heavy brake zone into the Bus Stop.

 

Good info, thanks, I'll study the map and look for that area. Most likely, my wife will be joining me and driving also, and we'll be taking the Cayman R because it provides more safety with its hardtop, compared to the 911 being a cab, though I do enjoy tracking the 911, which I'll be doing again tomorrow. The Cayman R is probably easier to keep under control, though maybe easier to spin if the driver makes a big mistake (because of its lower polar moment of inertia).

I take the same approach of starting slow and gradually/carefully dialing it up faster and faster. Going all out from the first moment would just be begging for trouble. At Shenandoah, I had 8 sessions. Session 1 was really slow and messy (very challenging track to learn), but by sessions 4 to 8 I was the fastest by a good margin in my group of 15 people, to the extent of passing many people and lapping a few. One guy I passed tried to give chase for a while, which was tons of fun, and we enjoyed talking about it after the session - he said it was the highlight of his weekend.

 

I think all DEs use the long corse (and only nascar uses the short).

You're going to love diving into the esses and ripping up the hill. I can't wait for your review.

here is a video of me at this last event, it start on the front straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sOCjEYIPPtg


and check out this turn by turn guide (it's the best one I've seen):
http://cdn.niagarapca.org/page_asset...doc?1330814158

 

I've been to tracks up and down the Northeast. Watkins Glen remains the gold standard for tracks to me. Also without question one of the best maintained. I love it for its size, elevation, subtle turns and more. Its one of those places that you can drive for years and keep finding ways to improve no matter how good you are. The track surface is varied, it requires you to really understand and read the track..

Watkins Glen is actually one of my favorite tracks in the rain - just because you have to understand the surface and differences in wear and drive a true rain line. And you can still drive it fast if you read the surface.

Indeed the blue bushes lurk. Everyone talks about them. Don't hit them You shouldn't be going off the track anyway - You are not immortal and those blue bushes should make you a bit more cautious. Thats all.

After MANY years there I was finally bitten. By a mechanical failure.

I had a rear control arm break in practice at the club race last weekend and hit a guard rail at the top of the esses. The other guy hitting me hurt more. But these things happen in club racing on ANY track. In my case I'm grateful that my suspension let go in the warmup after the checker when I was in 3rd gear where I would normally be topping out in 5th. In a race I would have taken out ten cars and surely hurt someone.

Other tracks like NJMP seem safer and indeed there are plenty more places where you can go off and not come to harm, but I still see plenty of people that manage to hit things there. I guess the extensive runoff spaces at a massively safe track like NJMP make people feel immortal and there are places there - probably one of the safest tracks anywhere where you can still hit things. And people do.

A race track is a race track.

And for what its worth, a friend in the sister car to mine had a similar control arm failure at NJMP two years ago and hit the bridge there, destroying his car and breaking his arm. When your suspension breaks, its never a happy result.

So at the end of the day, I love and continue to love Watkins Glen. It was my first track and remains the one I enjoy the most. It never ceases to challenge

 

Thanks for this info, including your reminder of the inherent risks. The wife and I will be going to WG the weekend after next (both of us driving, but I told her to go slow). I'd appreciate any specific advice you can offer regarding how to deal with the varying track surfaces.

 

My friend is also an instructor and has offered to teach me (poor guy ). And since Mid-Ohio is the closest track for both of us, I assumed (assume = *** of u and me) that is where we would go. He replied, "Oh no, WG and PP are much better tracks to train at." Since he has vastly more experience in this area, I left it at that. I will speak with him to see what I can find out.

 

dealing with the surfaces is for people who really know the the track and are trying to get that last little bit. For you it's more the basic concrete is more grippy than the asphalt in the try. follow the D.E. line in the link I gave you above and listen to your instructor and you'll do great.

 

If you're interested in drving at Watkins Glen next week, Friday through Sunday, PCA Potomac's DE still has spots open.

The event is open to all car makes, not just Porsches; you just need to get a tech inspection done in advance to make sure your car is safe (there are shops around here that do it for free).

Here's some general info on their DE program: https://pcapotomac.org/index.php?opt...d=2&Itemid=137.

And to register, you can contact the registrar directly: DERegistrar@pcapotomac.org

The cost is $395 with a full-time instructor for all three days, which seems like a bargain to me, especially considering that this one of the top tracks in the US. And there's no additional cost if you're not a PCA member.

Hope to see you there!

 

if my car wasn't being repaired right now I might have gone to this one. That is a great price.

 

Went to WG and had a blast. Took me two instructed sessions to know the track fairly well, then I was able to dial up the speed, and I mostly soloed. Got to around 135 to 140 on the back straight before the bus stop when I wanted to try maxing out, but usually settled for high 120s there and focused on trying the drive the track well overall.

Turn 1 was messy for a while, but I eventually learned to brake hard, turn fairly quickly while trail braking, dive tightly for the apex, and then get on the throttle, controlling track out mostly with the throttle.

The esses were fun, but required a lot of precision when the speed got high enough to generate real g-forces, since those curbs and the bridge aren't to be trifled with.

The bus stop was tons of fun. For me at least, a place to do some nice sliding/rotating of the car using power oversteer. Yee haw!

Had a chance to ride shotgun with a former racer driving my car and the experience was incredible. Wow!

Not sure this is the best track for a really green novice, since Turns 6, 9, and 11 have limited runoff which increases crash risk. But yes, the risk is minimal if people accept going slower and don't try to emulate better drivers (or guys on R-comp tires!).

I was told by a couple of people to 'respect the track', and I think that's good advice. But I definitely recommend getting out to this track, and I expect to be there next year. Fond memories were made there.