I understand and wasn't picking at a bone. I just think that GT3 drivers typically are fairly number/performance minded and that might be a decision factor on the part of Porsche factory.

Who knows?

 

That's an interesting question. I really don't know what the profile of GT3 buyers is, and I can't assume that I fit that profile. Presumably, Porsche has done their homework on this.

 

Like I said yesterday...one think won't change with the 991 and its variants...

the PDK vs Manual debate.

 

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. There is no lack of respect from the manual crowd towards the PDK crowd. My only issue is that the PDK users keep to returning to one theme; that being PDK is faster and we (the PDK crowd) can NOT understand why the rest of the world doesn't assimilate. I mean the Borg was successful with Capt Kirk why can't the rest of you follow suit . No kidding!?! Really??? It is?! Say it's not so??? Any manual guy who knows a car has four wheels realizes this. What I do find funny is that PDK users can not seem to recognize that some simply enjoy the act of shifting manually. I am so sick of hearing how archaic that is or how much faster a dual clutch is, etc.. I enjoy moving a focking lever back and forth over pushing a focking floppy paddle or button on the steering wheel, hence there is no argument because it is what it is.

 

I wasn't debating between the 2 trannies. I was trying to get inside Porsches brain when I mentioned that sequential & PDK gearboxes get the most out of a GT3 or CUP car. I didn't pick a favorite.

I do think that sometimes the manual crowd forgets that the PDK guys cut their teeth with a **** in hand a a clutch under foot :/ Anyway rather than pick favs let's try to decipher porsches thinking on the matter, should it be true that PDK is the only initial offering from the factory.

 

The relative strengths of manual and PDK are clear to everyone, so there seemingly should be no need for debate. Just pick the one you prefer and understand that others will choose differently. Just as people don't all choose the same flavor of ice cream.

But maybe the 'debate' continues because there's some insecurity on both sides? Maybe some (not all) manual guys are bothered by the thought of having chosen the slower, more cumbersome, and more archaic transmission? Maybe some (not all) PDK guys are bothered by the thought of having sold part of their souls and manhood for the sake of speed and convenience?

Not trying to be provocative here, just trying to understand why this debate never ends.

 

ok, ok.. Let's talk factory decisions now. I wonder if it's just a first year thing? Maybe the 2015 models will have that and it's like the current 991 not being offered in 7MT for the first half of a year. Maybe it's revenue generation. Unsure if there is added padding in the PDK option for porsche.

 

Manifold - not trying to dispute what you're saying - but you asked why the debate never ends, so here's how I feel about it (also taking the chance to throw in my two cents on the subject in general, not just in reply to your message).

So unfortunately, I'm losing the choice to get a manual in new cars, and that's the debate for me. I don't argue which is better. I don't argue which one people should buy. I just want a manual to be available, and I'm losing that choice, and that's what I'm complaining about.

That said, there's a near infinite supply of six speed cars I want to own that I haven't had yet - 997.2 GT3, latest Vette Z06, current model R8, Gallardo 550-2, upcoming Boxster, and more varieties of A/C Cobra replicas. So at the end of the day when I say things like "I wish the McLaren MP4-12C had a manual", it isn't really killing me that much, just saving me money.

And venting on other comments that abound on this subject across the great internet, I could also go on about how I prefer the feel and experience of driving to ultimate performance (so I don't care if PDK is faster - hell, one of my favorite cars to drive is my little "slow" Lotus Elise), that the argument cars are too fast for manual shifts to keep up doesn't explain how the ZR1, Viper, and GT2 RS are so fast around the ring, and how the argument that PDK is faster around the track is true but I'd also be faster around the track in the passenger seat of a Miata with Michael Schumacher driving it. But I'd just be fanning the flames and that would be counterproductive.

So anyone pointing out to me how much faster PDK is compared to a manual might as well try and talk me out of my favorite flavors of ice cream and the kind of music I like. I just want a six speed manual because I like shifting it, and I'm sad to see that choice getting taken away.

<Insert jokes about how I might want to have drum brakes, a hand crank, and non-radial tires here>

-- Gordie

 

I have said this before, and I just wanted to reiterate it here on this thread.

For the record, I don't for a second believe that Porsche is going to stop offering the MT in GT cars. I think Porsche is just testing the waters with this rumor..

 

You read my mind and perfectly expressed it here. Thank you!

 

Relatively no, not really they are not. There are people out there that think PDK is worth 3 seconds a lap (LOL), even had a someone post last year it was worth 10 seconds a lap (seriously), when in fact it's worth LESS than ONE second a lap. You can look at cars equipped with both and tested with both on the same day and you will find that most people are delusional as to how much faster PDK will make them. I'm pretty sure even Porsche's drivers have found this to be true as well. Guys that rely on greater skill to be faster at the track will not be enamored with PDK because to them (us), speed is relative. If you are a back marker now, and PDK puts you up a few positions, then you will still be a back marker again once everyone else has PDK. PDK will just make the gap closer between people who have more skill and the ones who have less.

Add to that the other inherent advantages of better gear ratios for PDK equipped cars and the advantage is even smaller. If Porsche makes a no-lift-shift manual like GM has and makes shorter gear ratios to match the PDK, the difference will be next to nothing.

Ask any racers and one of the best ways to go faster is to change from stock gear ratios to shorter ones as almost zero manual transmissions are geared for track duty relative to a PDK/DSG transmission.

 

If you look at the 0-60 times Porsche claims for the PDK vs the 6/7 speed, shave 2 tenth of a second on each shift and there's the difference. on a hot lap or even over a course of a race, all those tenth's add up quick and you have a fairly wide margin.
If people want a stick cause they like shifting and love to use a 3rd pedal, thatīs great and understandable but PDK is definitely the quickest combination.

 

from your answer I would have to gather that you have not tracked a car....

speed on a track has allot more to do than with 0-60 times.....

yes PDK is quicker; but heavychevy has brought up some good points...and driver skill trumps all.

 

for less than ordinary drivers or the average Joe (most of the Porsche customers), the PDK will be far superior to the 6 speed, cause it takes more skill to be fast in a manual. for the pros the advantage of the PDK is not that big, but itīs still there.

 

Yes, for the average joe you are correct. But i disagree that most porsche customers are average Joe's.