i don`t know about the U.S. but in europe the typical/average 911 customer is a businessman, 50-60 years old and not interested in Porsche Forums.
honestly, most GT3 customers (i consider them to be the best drivers in the community) are better than the average joe, but still lightyears away from the pros. But i don`t think that GT customers are representative for Porsche drivers as far as driving skills are concerned.

 

No, that is not the difference.


Remove launch control and get the same gear ratios and you will see that your math is flawed because although the time difference may add up, the reason for the time gap it's a mostly launch and gears, not shifts.

And beyond that, on a road race track, a skilled driver will rather be under
60 mph so that is irrelevant anyways not to mention propaganda from the manufacturer to sell their new product.

 

Propaganda or not, if you are not a skilled driver and you want to go fast then the PDK makes your life much easier round a track. If you are experienced, then, as i said, it doesn`t make a huge difference and it´s a matter of personal preferences.
we`ll see and as inglorious said, i guess they are testing the waters here. i think they will offer a manual.

 

No argument there. I'll stick with manual.

 

Good observation. I agree.

 

I disagree with that statement, all that needs to be done is to have a launch control put on a manual car that has AWD. Notice Porsche did not include launch control on the Porsche Turbo without PDK but it's on the GT2 which can't really make the best use of it because of RWD.

Launch control in a manual with AWD would still be a beast. Think about how close drivers are getting just slipping the clutch. Launch Control + No Lift Shift + Manual would change a lot of opinions IMO.

The technology just has not been equally applied to the manual transmission to give a fair assessment of the difference (because they want everyone to drink the kool-aid), but it's much smaller than you'd think. However in the long run it's less expensive for manufacturers to keep completely unskilled drivers from burning up a clutch.

 

I posted this ... i will stand behind this:three months ago i would have agreed... but after driving the newest generation PDK ..I dont know... cup cars are sequential... it this the new sequential??? I can tell you more than anyone after owning 11 GT3's and two cup cars... I can tell you last weekend i drove the 991 on the track.... the PDK was insane!!!!!!!!! i caught GT3's with slicks..I love the third pedal i always will but i wont be a hater of technology
_______

 

Agreed.

(thanks for the shout out btw)

I initially stayed out in the side lines because these pdk vs mt discussions get really messy.

But something interesting was said.

I can give you the benefit of a doubt that the difference would be minimal or smaller than I would assume if two cars spec'ed out with the exact same options except for mt vs pdk. But , and this is a huge butt , inherent in your own argument is the assumption that the pdk is faster than the mt, no matter how small it may be. So no matter how you cut it, pdk is still faster than a mt even if there is a no lift shift. This of course assumes that humans and pdk execute shifts perfectly every time without error (specifically human error) and with perfect rev matching. Since these ideal conditions can never be achieved, pdk still wins out if speed is the absolute highest priority to the driver.

And I'm not even touch the personal preference/driver involvement argument. It is impossible to be objective on that matter.

 

"Pretty much everything Manifold said"

If the GT3 is not offered with a manual gearbox, I won't buy one -- it's that simple. I fully acknowledge how "good" PDK is (and various other paddle systems), but I simply do not enjoy using paddle 'boxes. For me, a GT3 would be primarily a road car, and in a road car I thoroughly enjoying using a manual gearbox -- it's an integral part of the experience for me. It enables a level of involvement with the mechanicals of the car that no automated system can -- no matter what, with a paddle-shift, there is a computer between you and the gearbox and there is a computer between you and the clutch(es). I am not suggesting that the GT3 should be manual-only, just that the choice should not be taken away.

 

Oh, and just to clarify, I prefer that the GT3 come with a MT. Would be great if they offered PDK as an option though.

 

No one is saying wanting a manual is wrong. It's a choice just like the color of your car. The dilemma here is PDK only for the GT3 which is arguably targeted at being the absolute fastest car around a track that Porsche and all their engineering can give to you. That isn't the official statement from Porsche but it does seem to be that way with how things are moving. Yes it all comes down to the driver at the end of the day, but with the same driver the PDK will undoubtably shave seconds off your lap time no matter how you try and frame it.

You guys are deviating from the issue, driver skill isn't the debate here it's that numbers the PDK can out down vs a manual.

In response to the so what if it's a couple seconds faster I want a manual argument...old guys were beating that dead horse in favor of the manual before dual clutch transmissions came along. "manuals are faster than automatics!" it does bring me a small amount of joy to see those same guys eating there words.
Also I drive in traffic a lot, and a manual blows to drive on stop and go freeway traffic, which is where I spend more time. Also have to answer a lot of phone calls whle driving which is much harder to do ina manual. Unfortunately we don't commute on racetracks, if we did Im sure automatics would have never have come along.

 

I think those of you who are on the manual only train should buy a 993 turbo 6speed and be done with it. I for one love the new tech and again, after being in the racecars with sequentials...there is NOTHING like it. Would LOVE it on the road. Would probably change my upcoming car choice too!!!

 

wow, i heard that the new PDK is a big improvement, but it´s great to hear from an independent source how good it really is.

 

It's a great improvement, the way it should be now...

 

I personally can't believe we are debating which is faster. This should be a no brainer.

I drive on terrible LA roads and traffic. I would give anyone a medal for driving a MT in LA or SF.