Preaching to the choir, man...

 

I had a couple of E320s too. Nice luxury cars, but not sporty. Had zero issues with them.

The C63 is a very different kettle of fish from the Porsches or the E320. On one hand, a German muscle car with a fabulous nasty big engine - you have to spend of lot of money to get that kind of low-end torque from a Porsche. Much else in the car is cranked up for performance also, so very little of the stuff that matters is shared with the regular C-class. I think that makes the C63 sort of a bargain. On the other hand, it still has the velvety refinement that I've always found in MBs. Overall, very much an iron fist in a velvet glove.

So among sports sedans, the C63 is still my top pick (compared it with the E550 Sport, and that felt like an unwieldy boat by comparison). The M3 is a close second. I also like the Panamera, but I think the C63 is still more tossable and fun to drive.

But again, the thing is that it's a sports sedan, not a sports car. As a result, I much prefer to drive the 911, and now my wife drives the C63 more than I do. Funny thing is that I originally got the C63 for myself, and the 911 was more for my wife (she wanted a cab, and I pushed to get something sporty). But eventually I couldn't bear to not have the 911 as my DD, so I kind of stole it from her, and got her the Cayman R to replace it (which she likes even more than the 911). Silly and indulgent stuff in a way, but life is short.

 

Thanks,
My friend was thinking of a step up from his Audi S4, which is a great sport sedan as well. If I can swing it, my next sedan might be the Panamera. But, I do have a frugal street, the current family car is a Milan. Not much performance but a very good deal for the 26 k we paid.

I traded the 997.2 for the 991, and spent a lot more money, using the same self indulgent logic - and life is short. I had a bad patch with cardiologists in January so I had a very timely reminder of that!
Michael

 

Mountains out of molehills, like nitpicking over if the 991 has edgy enough handling to be considered a 911?

Please!

How about you stick to what's important to you, and ill continue to debate the topic at hand. Which is a clear misrepresentation of the facts and comparison made by EVO magazine.

 

Uh oh, I don't want to get drawn into it!

I'm trying to say that I think (nearly) everyone has gotten your point. And your input has been appreciated - your expertise is evident.

But I doubt that even you and Jasper are as far apart as you think, yet you guys seem in a mood to continue the argument anyway.

It's up to you. I'm not the debate police. Just sayin' ...

 

Oh. My. Goodness...

Okay ... - go!

 

Come to think of it, if your friend might be interested in my C63, shoot me a PM. Our two Porsches have made the C63 a redundant car for us, and it would probably make sense for us to replace it and our old wagon with an SUV.

 

It's quite important if you were to then add the difference between an R-Compound level tire like the Dunlop Sport Maxx vs a regular Pirelli P Zero.

Now the gap is really small, if not reversed and the GT-R fanboys are REALLY sweating....

And we haven't even gotten to PDK 911S yet........

But then again, you knew that already too, which is why you are putting up such a fight.

Getting hot over there yet Jasper?

Jasper and I are very far apart, like on opposite ends of the spectrum, because although he tries to play innocent enthusiast, his agenda for being on this forum is pretty clear if you see his post patterns. He has very little to contribute other than posting in Porsche forums about the GT-R.

You couldn't find two people further apart. I know cars, tracks, data and handling. He knows what he reads in magazines. I can analyze a lap from watching, he tries to introduce confusion because he doesn't have a solid rebuttal.

I just find it annoying, and I'm going to give him a hard time every time he posts his nonsense.

 

Take as further proof, the hockenheim ring as tested by sport auto. The 2012 GT-R with 530 hp ran a 1:09.94 and a 1:10 (on the fast Dunlops).

The PDK 991S ran a 1:10.4 on the regular tires (.5 difference). What we do know is that the 545 hp GT-R is not much faster at all than the 530 hp one. And we also know that the manual 991S is not that much slower than the PDK. Completely feasible for the 991S PDK on R-comp level tires to beat the GT-R. I would venture to say even a set of N-spec sport cups.

The track is actually not to much different (in style or length). Both laps feature similar turns, (hairpin, switchbacks, some fast corners). And the overall lap time isn't too much different.

Now examine the evidence for yourself and you'll see that the GT-R is not 3 seconds quicker than the 991 S manual, not even close to it. And the EVO test actually helps to prove that.

I love analyzing data and video, and I'm passionate about it. If you just like to read magazines, so be it, just ignore me, like I will you when you guys are arguing over who neg repped who, or the interior of the 991 being 911 enough. At the end of the day, when it comes to the track, I'm interested in the truth.

At least ask yourself if my ramblings start to make sense, even if you can't see the stopwatch end at 1:22.08 or can't tell the car is bouncing off the rev limiter, or don't know how much time that and shifting mid corner in a manual will cost you on a hot lap.

 

Actually, there is nothing you can do to convince me that a base 911 (or S) is going to compare to a GT-R in terms of performance. I cannot speak for any other person. It seems as any logical entity would arrive at the same conclusion, but that excludes you, doesn't it heavy?

Actually, what you are refuting is Tiff's review. I never argued anything either for or against it. It is what it is. You spend your time bench racing the GT-R, while I enjoy my time on track in one (and every day for almost 4 years).

Carry on, bench racer. Prove Tiff's inferiority. What does he know about cars anyway? He's just a Nissan fanboy.

 

We'll see who's a bench racer if we ever happen to be at the same track on the same day, how about that?


The evidence is piling up, and you have absolutely nothing to refute it.

That has to sting......

 

Seeking some common ground, seems that everyone agrees with the following?

- Tiff enjoyed driving the 991 more on the track.
- Tiff did a bad shift which slowed the 991 down.
- The 991 would have been faster with PDK, and that would have been a more appropriate matchup.
- A fairer matchup would give the 991 better tires.
- Historically, stock 911s have better durability on the track than stock GT-Rs.
- If price is a factor, it's reasonable to compare the 991S with the GT-R.
- Real drivers prefer manual over double-clutch ( sorry, couldn't resist).

 

Dude - I think you've been drinking. Answer this - If we both are on track - who would be the bench racer? And what the hell does that have anything to do with the results of this review? You're going off the deep end. Please stay focused.

What evidence? There is not one single category/performance test that ever put a Carrera anywhere NEAR the GT-R - ever, in any iteration.

That has to sting......

 

Nice.

But none of that matters, right? It is the misrepresentation of facts. Tiff is a loser who doesn't know how to drive a manual RWD car, nor keep time. Everything else is thrown out.