I test drove the new 991S yesterday and I was a little underwhelmed. I really was expecting great things from it. In fact I was ready to put my money down.

To be clear, there is nothing his car does poorly and anyone who owns one is lucky. But on the other hand the only hing it does better than many of its peers is numbers, and if I wanted numbers I would buy a GTR.

I think it's problem is it is a classically trained prodigy and the old car was more of a savant, incredibly gifted, unique and not without issues.

I love the modernity of the new car, but it has lost some of that unique Porsche shape. All,the lines have been smoothed out a little too much (like the 996 was). I did like the rear lights.

The old car was less like every other car in every way. It felt like more of an experience. It was purposely not being status quo (engine in the back etc). I feel the new car is trying to be more like every other car, and that's a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm now thinking of a 997 GTS, but I'm shocked at how much of their value they are retaining. any thoughts from people who have had far more seat time in the cars than I?

 

IMHO, the 991s is far superior to the 997GTS is all respects.

 

Take your time and drive them all as much as you can. Can't go wrong with either choice. I wouldn't rule out a turbo or GT3/GT3RS. After that get the one you can't stop thinking about, drive the heck out of it and don't log back in until your ready to get the next one. Kidding of course on the last one but this site has been known to create havoc for some wallets.

 

Since the topic has already been much much debated, I'll try another approach:
-the 997 GTS is a great car and is still superior to many of Porsche's competitors products
-the transition from the 997 to the 991 is a big undertaking for Porsche in terms of continuity of sales and manufacturing (even many months before the 991 becomes available). So here's what -smart- Porsche marketing guys do: they pick a bunch of niceties in the 997 toolbox and build the last 997 that will be close to the 991S (launched first) in terms of price and performance
-so people know have the choice between the best ('affordable') 997 that, they hope, could become some kind of collector, and the new 991S. Porsche has created an artificial dilemma that will make their transition easier and will not create a hiccup in their cash-flow statement.
-in the end, Porsche wants to sell 991S and you want to buy one. Period. I went back to magazines from the 993 & 996 era's and it was ALL the same kind of discussions.

To the OP: if you want a performance 911 with more muscle, wait a bit (you got some nice rides to take care of anyway) and buy a 991 GT3.
You could also go the opposite way and buy a mint 993, 964 or 930 that will feel a lot more raw and close the the 'original'

 

Very true, there are many flavors of 911's that one can pick to suit their taste, from current/future crops of 991's to many of the past interpretations of the 911 brand. They are all fantastic drives.

When I went to test the 991's, I think I was predjudiced and anticipating the new 911 to wow me out of my existing ones, but no, instead of appreciating the new drive and technologies, I was looking for a more raw and visceral experience. Better numbers does not necessarily equate to a better drive. Personally, I have a 991S on order but GT3s are the ones I am truly waiting for...

Similar to some of the other posts or discussion threads, I think as 911's move up the market tiers, it needs to improve on exclusivity and some of the designs that clients expect in these price ranges when they spend $150-200k.

Yikes, are we still talking about squashed beetles ?

 

I'm bu no means a Porasche guy, so I'm not judging it through sentiment. I just found the 991 to be just another fast car. While the interior was improved, it still lags.

I hopped into the GTS this morning and it was everything I wished the 991 was. This was a car that was doing things its way. The cabin was better, more focused, not TRYING to be posh. It had a great functional quality to it. Could it be made with better materials and be less flimsy, yes, but I liked being in there.

The engine sounded better as well, though that direct injection diesel quality was there ( Aston knows how to make an engine musical). Would inwant to drive long distances, no. But i like how mechanical it was. The steering was similar to the V12Vantage, direct, alive, fun.

I wish they had built the 991 to this brief. I know people think this debate happens everytime a new Porshe arrives, but the 996 is still not as desirable as the 993. History will prove that the 991 been more able, but it might end up being less desirable.

This is the same arc the E-Type Jags and Nissan 240's etc went down. Bigger and supposedly better. At least it now has and steel pan and aluminum body like the lowly Auudi TT, so it is getting lighter.

 

I know exactly where you are coming from as I once felt exactly the same.

I test drove a 991 and the car seemed just like any other car. No brilliance. It was fast but the passion somehow missed it.

I kept thinking about it and felt that I might be missing something so I went back to the dealer to ponder the car. The interior is not to your liking as most cars on the lot are not full leather and this shows. I have an RS 60 that is full leather and it is very up scale. The 991 interior is better but too much plastic just cuts the feeling of quality. I have sat in one since that is full leather and it feels much different. I would not compare to to the Aston Martin but the quality is actually better.

As for the dive. If you take it out on the freeway and around an off ramp or two the car will under impress because it does it with no fan fair. It does not seem much better than a Honda or Acura, but in reality it makes it a better car. This is where the discomfort from the 997 comes in as you go bobbing down the road. The car feels alive but it does not need to be. In a way the 991 is almost too good to be fun; hear.

I did a second drive where I chose where to go and what to do. I merged onto the freeway over to the fast lane with one shove the the throttle. Brilliant, then let it settle at 70. The car is like riding in the Acura. Fairly quiet and stable. Not a bad place to be for 50 or 100 miles of the same, where the 997 would become tiring. Then I took the car off the main road onto a back twisting road with flowing back and forth turns and it all comes clear. At a reasonable speed the car feels alive but not challenging. It does most anything you can think of and before you take action as it seems to just do what you think. Push it harder and it gets better. About the time you may feel some stress, which is part of the fun, in the 997 the 991 just feels alive but in a relaxed manner. I pushed up to maybe 70 to 80% of the cars capabilities and never felt one bit nervous where I would be somewhat in most other cars.

In the end, my passion for the car is there and will most likely order one some time soon.

 

A big factor is where and how you'll be driving. If you'll be tracking a lot, the 997 is a proven performer, whereas there isn't much feedback yet on how the 991 does on the track. Yes, the 991 has fast lap times, but that reflects expert drivers going for 10/10ths - not what the vast majority of track guys are doing - and there's also the track durability question.

If you're driving on the road, I think the choice is quite subjective, since the performance limits of both the 997 and 991 are much higher than can reasonably be reached on the road - both cars can easily land you in jail. Personally, at reasonable speeds, I prefer the unique dynamics and rawness of the 997, but the 991 has its appeal too, especially from a luxury standpoint (but luxury is a low priority for me in a sports car).

 

This is a pointless debate. Just like SML-ATL, I have driven both a 997 and a 991 on the track at Barber, and there is no question about how much better 991 is performance-wise. It is better in everyway. So If you prefer the the way the GTS feels, it is a personal decision....the fact remains, the 991 is best performing, streetable 911 Carrera yet. Comparing the Porsche 911 plat-form to anything else is also somewhat flawed.

 

But what if someone isn't tracking the car?

 

Then you got to go by how you feel inside the car....bringing in performace criteria that are only applicable to motorsports is not helpful I think. Like SML-ATL alluded to if you like that mechanical feeling a mint 993 may be the car for you. You want a modern GT car...there is Aston Martin. A very persnal decision.I dont think that forums cnt provide that answer.

 

Now that VW owns Porsche, the 2013 991 is being rebadged as the Beetle Sport

 

It is better now. From the speed it is selling, it is more desirable now. What history will say about it and whether it will be held in as high regard as the 993 15 years from now is anybody's guess. Will an early 991 be the collector's car 40 years from now? Again, who knows and I will be 90+ by then so I will not be losing sleep over it. I love mine now. If I like the next version better, or some new Porsche like the rumored 928' I will buy it then.

One last point, since VW now controls and by published accounts, wants sales to be up over four times, to about half a nillion cars/ year We may look back at the 991s as being the last true Porsche Carrera.

 

the performance argument is not an issue IMO... like you see 911's constantly over 100 mph on public roads?

Either car has enough performance if you know how to drive it.

By what you like based on your individual feedback.

 

Well, ihave tracked all the porsches I have owned, driven them on the Dragon's Tail, and around town and on trips. I just traded my GTS for a 991, which I test drove 8 times.
I personally don't like all the buttons and electronics. If I didn't resale it would have no radio.

Each new porsche has had something for me, and each new porsche made me miss my last one. Those that are really adamant about sports car quality in a porsche havent bought a new one since '89. They miss a lot.
Those of us who buy ( or lease) everytime we can follow the newness that Porsche engineers.

When I drove the 991, I was both overwhelmed and underwhelmed. That's why I bought it

I had a GT3 that you could not drive to the track from my garage and have your spine survive, but once on the track it was like a silver bullet.

I had an '89 Cab with Bosch wheels that drove like a taxi compared to my GTS...............

I have a boxster spyder that drives as well as my GT3, but has the torque of a toyota..................and on and on it goes

If you don't like porsches you will always be underwhelmed or critical. For most of us..there is no substitute