embarrassed by the 991 3.4
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 583
From: connecticut
Rep Power: 0
If you and your niece are inclined, check the HPDE schedule for your local PCA chapter - show up at any trackday and ask the organizers if they offer "a taste of the track" (that's the name we use at Hudson Valley PCA - Lime Rock). It's a $40 donation and an instructor will drive you, or your niece on track for a few laps. Find a car as close to yours as possible since you'd have to get a tech inspection and be a PCA member to use your car (which is track ready BTW with no modifications). Then you and/or your niece can see what a "base" 911 can do. It's awesome. You reach the limits of the street tires and stock seats/seatbelts easily though. The stock brakes hold up nicely.
I took my wife on track in the 991 and gave her a good scare. She grabbed the dash and let out a a few yelps....not on the straights but heading into corners. And her dad was an amateur rally driver.
BTW,
This is a fabulous thread about torque in general. My 997.2 had mid range grunt but the 991 top end is in another league. The older engine was easier to get a thrill with (like the hell ride for the niece) so you actually went slower. Thing is, I have driven the 991 S on track and in town. The torque curve is nearly identical to the 3.4. So it's just a touch more of the same. It too needs to unwind to display its wares. That's how the engine is set up. What defines naturally aspirated 911s is that they have as much power as they can use. The turbos are where the cars start to become hell ride machines. Maybe the OP should get one of those....
regards,
DRP
Last edited by drspeed; Mar 7, 2013 at 09:54 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 55
From: Norcal
Rep Power: 16
Originally Posted by VikingMariner:3787634
So in other words, the 991 base is optimized for hardcore driving on twisty roads, not drag racing down Main Street. Solid. Right on. Dig it. Worth every penny in the hands of a capable driver.
). The base 911 with sport chrono and PDK can do 0-60 in 4.2s, not going to lose many contests either, especially consider it will have much better rear tire hookup at launch, than all those muscle cars.Maybe not on a drag strip so your point maybe it does not belong there.
Last edited by Min911; Mar 7, 2013 at 09:56 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 317
From: USA
Rep Power: 28
I did not say it cannot drag race down Main Street (not that I will ever do that). The base 911 with sport chrono and PDK can do 0-60 in 4.2s, not going to lose many contests either, especially consider it will have much better rear tire hookup at launch. Maybe not on a drag strip so your point maybe it does not belong there.
). The base 911 with sport chrono and PDK can do 0-60 in 4.2s, not going to lose many contests either, especially consider it will have much better rear tire hookup at launch. Maybe not on a drag strip so your point maybe it does not belong there.
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,806
From: Dallas
Rep Power: 176
ChuckJ
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 274
From: NY
Rep Power: 29
The thrill is not the kick in the gut acceleration, it is scaring the crap out of drivers of other cars when you fly by them in the left hand lane on curves.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 317
From: USA
Rep Power: 28
Or when they tailgate us into those turns. Muhahaha!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,219
From: Fayetteville
Rep Power: 499
Only when you're going too slow. 
But seriously - what the hell is this 12yr old usually riding in that a Porsche feels slow?
But seriously - what the hell is this 12yr old usually riding in that a Porsche feels slow?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
From: SF Bay Area
Rep Power: 16
A very interesting read. I too have complained at length about the 991's lack of grunt, and the more I drive it, the less I think there is any defending it.
I spent the first 20 years of my life racing karts and cars. I drive the car on track. I beat it senseless on mountain roads. But the car is geared too tall for its power curve, which prevents it from being as sporty as its competitors - even in those conditions.
For example, I drove a friend to lunch in Half Moon Bay this past weekend and spent a couple of hours exploring some mountain roads. While I don't have a good way of describing how quickly we were going on an internet forum, let's say it was fast enough to cause brake fade. While the car handles phenomenally, getting out of slow, nominally 2nd gear corners, was terribly frustrating. The car could not accelerate at the limit of its traction out of 30mph corners, which for me is the defining trait of a sports car.
A second example is coming out of turn 11 at Laguna Seca, or Turn 11 at Sears Point. 2nd is simply too tall, and 1st is too short. I've gone so far as to carry oversteer into these corners to keep the revs above what the maximum corner speed allows, but the car lacks the torque at those engine speeds to carry the rear end.
I'm not trying to rag on anyone or insult the car; I'm very proud of it and I really do like the overall driving experience. But I think we need to be objective about how it performs and compares to previous generations, and to its competitors. Perhaps with some customer feedback on the 991.1, the 991.2 will have a 2nd gear that only runs to 70mph, and a 3rd which only runs to 105. In my estimation, this would completely address the concerns described in this thread by providing a wheel torque to weight ratio at 25mph equal to that of an E92 M3.
I spent the first 20 years of my life racing karts and cars. I drive the car on track. I beat it senseless on mountain roads. But the car is geared too tall for its power curve, which prevents it from being as sporty as its competitors - even in those conditions.
For example, I drove a friend to lunch in Half Moon Bay this past weekend and spent a couple of hours exploring some mountain roads. While I don't have a good way of describing how quickly we were going on an internet forum, let's say it was fast enough to cause brake fade. While the car handles phenomenally, getting out of slow, nominally 2nd gear corners, was terribly frustrating. The car could not accelerate at the limit of its traction out of 30mph corners, which for me is the defining trait of a sports car.
A second example is coming out of turn 11 at Laguna Seca, or Turn 11 at Sears Point. 2nd is simply too tall, and 1st is too short. I've gone so far as to carry oversteer into these corners to keep the revs above what the maximum corner speed allows, but the car lacks the torque at those engine speeds to carry the rear end.
I'm not trying to rag on anyone or insult the car; I'm very proud of it and I really do like the overall driving experience. But I think we need to be objective about how it performs and compares to previous generations, and to its competitors. Perhaps with some customer feedback on the 991.1, the 991.2 will have a 2nd gear that only runs to 70mph, and a 3rd which only runs to 105. In my estimation, this would completely address the concerns described in this thread by providing a wheel torque to weight ratio at 25mph equal to that of an E92 M3.
Last edited by Kcarrigan; Mar 7, 2013 at 01:10 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 55
From: Norcal
Rep Power: 16
Originally Posted by Kcarrigan:3787805
A very interesting read. I too have complained at length about the 991's lack of grunt, and the more I drive it, the less I think there is any defending it.
I spent the first 20 years of my life racing karts and cars. I drive the car on track. I beat it senseless on mountain roads. But the car is geared too tall for its power curve, which prevents it from being as sporty as its competitors - even in those conditions.
For example, I drove a friend to lunch in Half Moon Bay this past weekend and spent a couple of hours exploring some mountain roads. While I don't have a good way of describing how quickly we were going on an internet forum, let's say it was fast enough to cause brake fade. While the car handles phenomenally, getting out of slow, nominally 2nd gear corners, was terribly frustrating. The car could not accelerate at the limit of its traction out of 30mph corners, which for me is the defining trait of a sports car.
A second example is coming out of turn 11 at Laguna Seca, or Turn 11 at Sears Point. 2nd is simply too tall, and 1st is too short. I've gone so far as to carry oversteer into these corners to keep the revs above what the maximum corner speed allows, but the car lacks the torque at those engine speeds to carry the rear end.
I'm not trying to rag on anyone or insult the car; I'm very proud of it and I really do like the overall driving experience. But I think we need to be objective about how it performs and compares to previous generations, and to its competitors. Perhaps with some customer feedback on the 991.1, the 991.2 will have a 2nd gear that only runs to 70mph, and a 3rd which only runs to 105. In my estimation, this would completely address the concerns described in this thread by providing a wheel torque to weight ratio at 25mph equal to that of an E92 M3.
I spent the first 20 years of my life racing karts and cars. I drive the car on track. I beat it senseless on mountain roads. But the car is geared too tall for its power curve, which prevents it from being as sporty as its competitors - even in those conditions.
For example, I drove a friend to lunch in Half Moon Bay this past weekend and spent a couple of hours exploring some mountain roads. While I don't have a good way of describing how quickly we were going on an internet forum, let's say it was fast enough to cause brake fade. While the car handles phenomenally, getting out of slow, nominally 2nd gear corners, was terribly frustrating. The car could not accelerate at the limit of its traction out of 30mph corners, which for me is the defining trait of a sports car.
A second example is coming out of turn 11 at Laguna Seca, or Turn 11 at Sears Point. 2nd is simply too tall, and 1st is too short. I've gone so far as to carry oversteer into these corners to keep the revs above what the maximum corner speed allows, but the car lacks the torque at those engine speeds to carry the rear end.
I'm not trying to rag on anyone or insult the car; I'm very proud of it and I really do like the overall driving experience. But I think we need to be objective about how it performs and compares to previous generations, and to its competitors. Perhaps with some customer feedback on the 991.1, the 991.2 will have a 2nd gear that only runs to 70mph, and a 3rd which only runs to 105. In my estimation, this would completely address the concerns described in this thread by providing a wheel torque to weight ratio at 25mph equal to that of an E92 M3.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 152
From: Austin TX
Rep Power: 24
The E92 M3 comment stumps me because I had an E92 and it was a dog until you hit 4k. According to specs, it makes 8 ft. lbs. of torque more than the base 911 but weighs over 700 lbs. more. The new GT3 has 325 lbs. of torque. Horsepower is for racing and torque is for pulling trailers. If you want to go faster, downshift.
Last edited by tx11; Mar 7, 2013 at 01:51 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 141
Rep Power: 29
I've found the same. 2nd provides no torque there, and I get passed by low HP cars. 1st is tough, because a touch too much throttle and your rear end is in the wall.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 759
From: Brasil
Rep Power: 59
Spot on. Happened to me all the time, I found myself always downshifting to 1st, nonsense.
Last edited by galion; Mar 7, 2013 at 03:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,229
From: Ocala, FL
Rep Power: 91
Just use the whole rev range. It feels faster above 5000 RPMs.
Some of it is due To how smooth the new 991 feels. It is very planted and stable. I Am surprised by how quickly I can accelerate without it feeling fast. It is a strange feeling. But enter a turn At Speed and you instantly recognize how fast This car really is.
An M3 (for instance) has more pure power off the line, but the 3.4 991 is a better car all around.
And, as I have always heard it, a Porsche is never about being the fastest 0-100mph. It is about being the best car on the Autobahn, where 60-100mph matters the most.
Some of it is due To how smooth the new 991 feels. It is very planted and stable. I Am surprised by how quickly I can accelerate without it feeling fast. It is a strange feeling. But enter a turn At Speed and you instantly recognize how fast This car really is.
An M3 (for instance) has more pure power off the line, but the 3.4 991 is a better car all around.
And, as I have always heard it, a Porsche is never about being the fastest 0-100mph. It is about being the best car on the Autobahn, where 60-100mph matters the most.
Ditto on the smoothness. My S5 seems peppy but not as quick as it says but when you look at the speedo you are almost triple digits before you know it.