The problem is, trying to keep the rev in the fat part of the power curve has to do with gearing also, and the effort is definitely different in street vs. on the track. Gearing should be different auto vs. manual.

Try to keep your rev in the 6k to 7k range all the time in the street and in a P-car, prepare to be embarrassed, not because you are slow, but because people think you are a nut job

The several members complained about their track experience exiting out of corners, they are certainly legit complaints, but they are not the same as the complaint by the OP.

 

The 991s toque curve rises sharply to a sweet spot at 4500 RPM and peaks at around 5500 rpm- not 6-7K. That speed is no nutso driving feat in a 991. Staying in a gear that keeps you under that and expecting interesting acceleration just ain't reasonable in a high performance normally aspirated engine of Porsche capacity. Moreover this particular engine is designed to rev high, sounds great and runs away from just about any car of its capacity.

 

Even at 4500 to 5500 sweet spot, one would not be able to do it in street conditions often.

But looking at the video where the 991s made record time on Nurburgring, the driver kept the rev at 6k to 7k almost all the time. Which is why I said in street is very different than on track. Although 6k to 7k is not the torque sweet spot, at 6k to 7k he used one lower gearing, which more than made up for the slight lower power, with a lot more power applied on the wheels.

I guess gearing does matter after all.

 

Thanks for clarifying. But I don't believe I made a mistake in stating that others feel there is insufficient torque (or low enough 'grunt' or whatever the term we are using here). I think this is commonly accepted that there are models for people who prefer more torque, and others who do not need/want it.

Those who feel it is insufficient, purchase an 'S' or Turbo. It happens quite often.

 

I test drove a 991 base model with 350hp last year and was really disappointed the pull didn't match the sounds coming from the engine. I drive a Lexus GS350 and I felt it pulled stronger than the base 991. No way I could ever buy tht car.
The 400hp car might be a little better but for my money, I would rather have the GTR with it's 2.8 0-60 for less than 100K.

On second thought, there's always a 911 Turbo.

 

A base 911 does the 1/4 in 12.7, your GS350 does 14.1. So much for feelings.

 

OK.....

 

"Quote:
A base 911 does the 1/4 in 12.7, your GS350 does 14.1. So much for feelings."

My current 996tt absolutely smokes my last 993 NA.

But my old porsche felt a lot faster than it really was and in some ways faster than my 996tt. You could hear the engine more, smell the engine more. Less refined and more sporty. In some ways I miss that old feeling.

Going 90 feels like going 70 in my old porsche.

From what I hear the 997 is more refined and less sporty than my 996 and the 991 even more so.

There's always pros and cons.

 

Or 0 to 60 in 4.2s vs. 5.7s. Still, it is possible to feel faster in GS350 than in a base 991. Japanese cars often have very responsive throttle tuned to rev up without much foot travel on the pedal, as long as there is no need to get up to 60+ mph in a hurry.

A Civic rental car once startled me since it had so sensitive throttle one light touch of foot it shot out, it then quickly ran out of breath.

 

I get the same feeling from driving the gf 2.0L beetle, there is so much lift in the front end and wheelspin when taking off from a standstill you think its fast. but really its not moving much. also a crappy throttle can also give you that false feeling of speed.

sure there is also a want for more whenever you get used the 911, when that happens everyone should drive a junk < $20k car to reset their feel meter on what a 911 has to offer.

 

Have any of you that have an S model had any difference in opinion? Just trying to see if the increase in hp + L capacity from 3.4 to 3.8 has alleviated some or most of the complaint others are facing here? Input would be much apperciated! Thanks!

I understand its not a "torque machine" from what I've gathered to be the consensus, however the driving experience is truly something that matters to all of us despite straight-aways or mountain roads!

 

I own a base model and have driven a 991s. When in sport mode with PDK both cars, there are IMHO no detectable differences below 5000 rpm. The S seems to have more pull - albeit not much more - above that engine speed.

I suspect that at speeds greater than 125mph one may feel more power, acceleration and grunt. I rarely exceed 150 on my way to the office however

I know I have instigated a riot with this post.

 

I have never driven a base 997 or 991. However, I have driven a 997 GTS and have owned a 991C2S a little over a year done 24000 kms.

My initial reaction was disappointment with low end torque in both the GTS and the 991S. But after owning this car I have realized that it just a perception that it lacks low end torque when it in fact clinically destroys just about every car around when in full throttle in sport + mode.

Sport + is way faster than regular sport and non-sport both of which one could consider to be rather docile. Sport+ is like the car's on steroids. Also it is the passenger who really feels the torque more than the driver. I have had more than one passenger tell me how they get thrown back in their seat when I floor it. Really 0-100 mph feels like it is achieved in a couple of blinks. There is no practical need for more torque on public roads.

I have driven the 458 Italia for an extended while and found it to have a lot more drama and better sound and better looks attracting more attention but it was only marginally faster than the 991 C2S. C2S is an outright no nonsense clinical fast car. Of course the 991 GT3 and 991 turbo will be clinically even more fast.

The moral of my story here is that to get maximum or extreme performance in the 991 sport + is must or the car is just civil.

 

I owned a 2009 997 C2S before the 2012 991 C2 and have not noticed a change in acceleration. I have noticed an increased smoothness with the PDK and a 15% improvement in mileage.

ChuckJ

 

Thanks for bringing some common sense to this thread!
So a Porsche 991C2 would be an underpowered car
The few track times I found for the 991C2 are better than for a 997C2S. The 991, whether it is an S or not, is smooth and faster than what you perceive.