thinking of trading 991 for M4
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Porsche has really lagged behind competitors when it comes to horsepower. I am shocked that for a complete model redo they have the 991 (3.4) a whopping 5hp over the 997 version. This is absurd. NO 911 should ever have less hp than an M3/M4. I wrote to Porsche about this and was told that because of emissions regulations they had to shrink the engine from 3.6 to 3.4. This of course is horse **** since the 3.8 remained exactly the same. The truth is they, Porsche, will not allow a non S 911 to have more HP than even a lowly 2005 997 S with 355. It's as if they are afraid to offend the owners of 911 S's from years gone by. I refuse to continue to pay $90k + for a car with 70 LESS hp than a BMW M4 and 60 ft lbs less torque. There are other options out there for our money and after 20 years of brand loyalty to Porsche if this is not addressed I am jumping ship and not looking back.
Agreed which is why I compared the e92 M3 to the 997.2.
Hopefully the M4 platform will be miles ahead of the M3 platform.
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First off, its about power to weight ratio. The 991S is a little lighter than the M4 reportedly will be and this will offset the slight power difference. Also, the PCar is still normally aspirated, a big plus in my book. Not to mention you will never be able to launch a M4 or similar car like the 991 as the car has the engine over the rear wheels and not to mention the grip they have.
Dave
Dave
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!
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Tsk, tsk! I suggest you write to Porsche first and tell them what you're threatening to do!
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When the M4 comes out, I challenge you to compute power/weight ratio. I'm guessing here, but I think the M4 will weigh 200+ lbs more than the 991.
Wanna know why a Cayenne Turbo S and a 991S have very similar acceleration figures? It's power/weight ratio, torque curve, transmission, efficiency, etc. It's not just bhp.
I'm not going to sit here and say an M4 will be a bad car, I'm sure it will be great. It's a matter of taste there. There's also a general rule that the fewer the parts, the more reliable it will be. Twin turbos, while pretty reliable these days, are an extra risk.
Wanna know why a Cayenne Turbo S and a 991S have very similar acceleration figures? It's power/weight ratio, torque curve, transmission, efficiency, etc. It's not just bhp.
I'm not going to sit here and say an M4 will be a bad car, I'm sure it will be great. It's a matter of taste there. There's also a general rule that the fewer the parts, the more reliable it will be. Twin turbos, while pretty reliable these days, are an extra risk.
I understand your frustration, the M4 with its 450hp twin turbo engine will feel ultra fast compared to a Carrera.
Ì have a BMW 1M and that little demon feels like it could run circles arround my 991S, definetely not as refined as the Porsche, but very fun to drive arround arround town.
Ì have a BMW 1M and that little demon feels like it could run circles arround my 991S, definetely not as refined as the Porsche, but very fun to drive arround arround town.
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The BMW M cars do make an impression. I recently ran into a woman I dated back in 2005, and she asked me if I still had that blue BMW M convertible with the black/blue two-tone seats. "That car was fun" - or maybe it's just that ladies like convertibles.
I also had a 2008 Boxster S RS 60 Spyder and that car was FAR superior to the M Roadster I had.
I also had a 2008 Boxster S RS 60 Spyder and that car was FAR superior to the M Roadster I had.
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Well let's not get elitist here. BMW sets the standard for sports sedans, or at least until the last couple years anyway. Porsche makes sports cars. But there are other great options...Ferraris, Lambos, now the C7, and I'll say that Jag is back too.
Some people are just not meant to own Porsches. The 911 isn't just any car it's the car that sets the standard by which all other cars are judged. If you didn't already know that I feel sorry for you. Really, if you have to think about trading a 991 for an M4...please do!
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Agree 100% with this actually, however I think each car mfr now has to strictly adhere to emissions and fuel economy limits across the model range. Ya know, if we didn't make Cayennes with horrible fuel economy we could probably put more power in the 911's, but then again the Cayenne helped save Porsche so we need to look at the big picture.
I don't have a BMW dealer nor am I a BMW "operative". I have owned every variant of 911 dating back to 1988 and enjoyed them all. I like my 991. In my opinion, they should have left the base car at 3.6 litres and given it 385hp minimum. A 5hp bump is a pittance for a complete redesign. It would still be less than an M4 but I would tend to gripe less because it's a significant improvement from the 997. I guess my real messge was not necessarily for Porsche to offer more HP than the M4 and more along the lines of stop being so stingy about HP increases across the 911 line.
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I have dated based on bra size before...it doesn't pay. The brain (ECU), the legs (redline), and the manners (suspension) matter a whole lot more. 
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What Porsche needs to do with the base C2 is keep the 3.4 liter engine but lighten the car another 150 lbs, then put in a GT3-like PDK gearbox. And do it free of charge.
I'm on the fence between a used 991 c2/c2s and new M4 myself. I agree that it is unfortunate about the price vs power levels in the 991. Yet at the end of the day, it is the better made car and enough people are lining up to buy them as is that Porsche can keep the status quo.
There is honestly more blame to place on the willing customers than Porsche themselves who are readily plunking down the ~100k for 350hp or ~120k for 400hp.
There is honestly more blame to place on the willing customers than Porsche themselves who are readily plunking down the ~100k for 350hp or ~120k for 400hp.
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But shedding weight costs money !
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