Tuner Loyalties
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This is a superb thread. On this forum, much more on a different forum, every time I'd post something positive about a new modification to my Turbo and mention my tuner/supplier I was inevitably accused of writing an ad--as though there's something criminal in naming who has a great product and have broadened the grin when I drive my Turbo. Clearly people who have great experiences with their tuners are loyal and proud of the work that gets done to their Porsche. Equally true given the nature of people and the size of some of these companies they are not always going to please everyone and are more than likely to screw up on occasion. The acid test is how the tuner/supplier responds to the extremely difficult customer or the tuner/suppliers own mistake. Some folks are not going to be pleased no matter what is done or offered. There's at least one tuners/supplier mentioned in this thread that is criminally negligent in owing a large sum of money to a customer. While other companies react and act to their own mistakes by bending over backwards to at least try to ensure the customer is happy.
I have always worked with Vivid, Dan, and his crew and consistently had completely positive experiences with their work. They have taken care of my car even when a problem was not even clearly their responsibility and provided expensive parts and labor when the failure most likely had to do with the failure of factory parts or my extremely heavy right foot. I have the 650 HP kit with Garrett Turbos installed in my Turbo. My car has run flawlessly and been mind-twistingly fast since the day the kit was installed. Vivid and Dan have done many other modifications to my car with the same attention to detail, excellent parts at great prices, and have overall provided totally excellent service. This shop has without exception gone out of their way to make sure I was completely pleased with the work they have done--I always have been.
This thread is especially interesting to me because I get to hear how other forum members feel about all the other, at least on this forum, important tuner/suppliers. I think it's fair to say that Porsche owners are a demanding lot, particularly those into modification and increasing horsepower, so customer loyalty is in general significant and indicative of a quality tuner who goes above and beyond the call of duty.
I have always worked with Vivid, Dan, and his crew and consistently had completely positive experiences with their work. They have taken care of my car even when a problem was not even clearly their responsibility and provided expensive parts and labor when the failure most likely had to do with the failure of factory parts or my extremely heavy right foot. I have the 650 HP kit with Garrett Turbos installed in my Turbo. My car has run flawlessly and been mind-twistingly fast since the day the kit was installed. Vivid and Dan have done many other modifications to my car with the same attention to detail, excellent parts at great prices, and have overall provided totally excellent service. This shop has without exception gone out of their way to make sure I was completely pleased with the work they have done--I always have been.
This thread is especially interesting to me because I get to hear how other forum members feel about all the other, at least on this forum, important tuner/suppliers. I think it's fair to say that Porsche owners are a demanding lot, particularly those into modification and increasing horsepower, so customer loyalty is in general significant and indicative of a quality tuner who goes above and beyond the call of duty.
Last edited by 966tt650; Nov 27, 2008 at 06:29 AM.
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Craig,
Great post … I spend most of my time on Rennlist and Pelican, but I do check the boards over here every so often. A few years ago, I selected a well known tuner based on information and member feedback from the many 930 forums and my experience was pitiful at best. I struggled with going public on the forums, but I did post a thread on Rennlist describing the circumstances and asked other members what they would do in my situation. I specifically asked that no tuner names be mentioned in the thread. Well, as the thread gained popularity, the tuner in question chimed in and admitted he was the tuner in question and his work was not at fault. All hell broke loose and within 2 hours, the thread was deleted and I was banned for a month. Moral of the story, don’t post negative feedback about Rennlist site sponsors. So the thread is gone and the negative feedback along with it. BTW, I’m not “beholding” to the tuner in any way. I would never allow this tuner to touch my car again.
Some members flamed me and some commended me for stepping up with information that can be helpful to others. What I learned is that these forums are sponsored and trolled by many tuners, some good and some not so good. Many have said that there are two sides to every story, but for some reason it is not acceptable to post negative experiences with certain tuners. I frequent these forums for information, right or wrong and it’s my job to determine if the information is correct and whether I’ll utilize the information or not. As a result of my bad experience, I will never use a tuner again. In the last two years, I’ve purchased all of the specialty tools necessary to service and maintain my car. Just recently, I dropped the motor and replaced all of my headstuds … The job turned out great and if any problems occur, I know exactly who to go to.
I’m not afraid to step up and share my experience with anyone, flame away. If you are interested in the details of my tuner experience, send me a pm. I wish more people had shared their tuner experiences on these boards, it may have made a difference wrt my tuner selection.
Regards, Dave
Great post … I spend most of my time on Rennlist and Pelican, but I do check the boards over here every so often. A few years ago, I selected a well known tuner based on information and member feedback from the many 930 forums and my experience was pitiful at best. I struggled with going public on the forums, but I did post a thread on Rennlist describing the circumstances and asked other members what they would do in my situation. I specifically asked that no tuner names be mentioned in the thread. Well, as the thread gained popularity, the tuner in question chimed in and admitted he was the tuner in question and his work was not at fault. All hell broke loose and within 2 hours, the thread was deleted and I was banned for a month. Moral of the story, don’t post negative feedback about Rennlist site sponsors. So the thread is gone and the negative feedback along with it. BTW, I’m not “beholding” to the tuner in any way. I would never allow this tuner to touch my car again.
Some members flamed me and some commended me for stepping up with information that can be helpful to others. What I learned is that these forums are sponsored and trolled by many tuners, some good and some not so good. Many have said that there are two sides to every story, but for some reason it is not acceptable to post negative experiences with certain tuners. I frequent these forums for information, right or wrong and it’s my job to determine if the information is correct and whether I’ll utilize the information or not. As a result of my bad experience, I will never use a tuner again. In the last two years, I’ve purchased all of the specialty tools necessary to service and maintain my car. Just recently, I dropped the motor and replaced all of my headstuds … The job turned out great and if any problems occur, I know exactly who to go to.
I’m not afraid to step up and share my experience with anyone, flame away. If you are interested in the details of my tuner experience, send me a pm. I wish more people had shared their tuner experiences on these boards, it may have made a difference wrt my tuner selection.
Regards, Dave
I've received many requests for details of my tuner experience, but I can not respond to PM's until I have 15 posts ... So, please send me your request along with your email address.
Regards, Dave
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When I owned my 996TT, I was subjected to an endless array of substandard service by several different tuners. In fact, certain "lapses in service" were so egregious as to constitute outright misconduct by the tuner. I often received inaccurate and conflicting information about the status of my car. Other times, my inquires were ignored and the tuner was non-responsive for extended periods. The parade of excuses was mind-numbing. These experiences were not unique to one particular tuner. To the contrary, I experienced multiple "lapses in service" with almost every tuner I ever dealt with. In fact, the tuning experience was so intensely frustrating that it substantially contributed to my decision to sell my car.
Based on the foregoing, one would assume that my posting history on this forum would be replete with tales of tuner acrimony and substandard service. Not so. To the contrary, I refrained from publicly disclosing my tribulations. I bit my tongue and kept quiet. I let tuners get away with countless misdeeds without so much as a hint of trouble in the public domain. I allowed my tuners' skeletons to remain hidden deep in their closets.
Am I alone? Am I the only one here that has been subjected to tuner misdeeds and substandard service, without public disclosure? Is everyone else receiving exemplary service, free of shortfalls, poor performance or other missteps? The answer my friends is absolutely, unequivocally no!!!!!
I repeatedly hear about lapses in service, substandard service, and completely unacceptable conduct undertaking by most, if not all, of the marquee tuners patronizing this forum. These anecdotes are shared with me privately, but rarely make it into the public domain. The victims of these shortfalls elect, like me, to refrain from going public. They permit these skeletons to remain in the closet, beyond the peering eyes of future customers.
So why is it that so many of us are so reluctant to reveal the substandard service and/or shortfalls of the tuners we patronize. I believe the answer is two fold.
First, when we patronize a particular tuner, we become beholden to that tuner. We rely on the tuner to finish our job in a timely manner and, thereafter, to back-up his parts and labor, to honor his warranty, and to take care of our upgrades on a going forward basis. Moreover, many car owners do not have multiple options in terms of who will work on their car. For example, geographical considerations often compel the patronage of one particular tuner. Consequently, none of us want to **** off our tuner and risk delaying completion, or losing access to their services after the work is done. None of us want to risk loss of our warranty and/or after-care. We want to remain in the good graces of our tuner, so that he will take care of us as the need arises. Therefore, we remain quiet and suck it up, so as to maintain an acceptable working relationship with our tuner. We do not disclose lapses publicly because we know our tuner will be upset and we cannot risk such a riff with our tuner. We are, in essence, indentured servants of our tuners. We are beholden to them. Isn't it ironic that we are the customers and, yet, we are the ones treating our tuners with kid gloves.
Second, none of us want to admit that we may have made a poor decision when selecting a tuner. To the contrary, we all want to believe, and equally important, we want others to believe, that the tuner working on our car is the absolute best in the business, hands down, bar none. We want our tuner to be well perceived in the community because public perception of our car is directly and inextricably linked to public perception of our tuner. For example, if public perception of a particular tuner is negative, any car built by that tuner carries the negative stigma. Conversely, if a tuner is well perceived in the public eye, cars built by that tuner benefit from the positive perception. Therefore, each of us have a vested interest in promoting the public perception of our particular tuners. The posting of negative experiences would contravene that interest. Therefore, in order to elevate the status of our own cars, we seek to elevate the status of the tuner building our cars, and we conceal negative information about the tuner in order to achieve that purpose.
These opinions are neither speculation, nor mine alone, but rather, an amalgamation of the opinions and experiences of many different car enthusiasts. The skeletons are there folks – every one of the tuners here has them. I hear about them multiple times a week. Unfortunately, full public disclosure is inhibited because of overriding tuner loyalties and fear of reprisal. Fortunately, I am no longer beholden to any tuner. I am free from the shackles. It’s a great feeling!!!
Regards,
Craig
Based on the foregoing, one would assume that my posting history on this forum would be replete with tales of tuner acrimony and substandard service. Not so. To the contrary, I refrained from publicly disclosing my tribulations. I bit my tongue and kept quiet. I let tuners get away with countless misdeeds without so much as a hint of trouble in the public domain. I allowed my tuners' skeletons to remain hidden deep in their closets.
Am I alone? Am I the only one here that has been subjected to tuner misdeeds and substandard service, without public disclosure? Is everyone else receiving exemplary service, free of shortfalls, poor performance or other missteps? The answer my friends is absolutely, unequivocally no!!!!!
I repeatedly hear about lapses in service, substandard service, and completely unacceptable conduct undertaking by most, if not all, of the marquee tuners patronizing this forum. These anecdotes are shared with me privately, but rarely make it into the public domain. The victims of these shortfalls elect, like me, to refrain from going public. They permit these skeletons to remain in the closet, beyond the peering eyes of future customers.
So why is it that so many of us are so reluctant to reveal the substandard service and/or shortfalls of the tuners we patronize. I believe the answer is two fold.
First, when we patronize a particular tuner, we become beholden to that tuner. We rely on the tuner to finish our job in a timely manner and, thereafter, to back-up his parts and labor, to honor his warranty, and to take care of our upgrades on a going forward basis. Moreover, many car owners do not have multiple options in terms of who will work on their car. For example, geographical considerations often compel the patronage of one particular tuner. Consequently, none of us want to **** off our tuner and risk delaying completion, or losing access to their services after the work is done. None of us want to risk loss of our warranty and/or after-care. We want to remain in the good graces of our tuner, so that he will take care of us as the need arises. Therefore, we remain quiet and suck it up, so as to maintain an acceptable working relationship with our tuner. We do not disclose lapses publicly because we know our tuner will be upset and we cannot risk such a riff with our tuner. We are, in essence, indentured servants of our tuners. We are beholden to them. Isn't it ironic that we are the customers and, yet, we are the ones treating our tuners with kid gloves.
Second, none of us want to admit that we may have made a poor decision when selecting a tuner. To the contrary, we all want to believe, and equally important, we want others to believe, that the tuner working on our car is the absolute best in the business, hands down, bar none. We want our tuner to be well perceived in the community because public perception of our car is directly and inextricably linked to public perception of our tuner. For example, if public perception of a particular tuner is negative, any car built by that tuner carries the negative stigma. Conversely, if a tuner is well perceived in the public eye, cars built by that tuner benefit from the positive perception. Therefore, each of us have a vested interest in promoting the public perception of our particular tuners. The posting of negative experiences would contravene that interest. Therefore, in order to elevate the status of our own cars, we seek to elevate the status of the tuner building our cars, and we conceal negative information about the tuner in order to achieve that purpose.
These opinions are neither speculation, nor mine alone, but rather, an amalgamation of the opinions and experiences of many different car enthusiasts. The skeletons are there folks – every one of the tuners here has them. I hear about them multiple times a week. Unfortunately, full public disclosure is inhibited because of overriding tuner loyalties and fear of reprisal. Fortunately, I am no longer beholden to any tuner. I am free from the shackles. It’s a great feeling!!!
Regards,
Craig
Graig, you my friend are 100 % correct... very few tuners make their mistakes right...I also am free from the shackles
. After two years+ I pulled the plug & moved on. I hope to god I don't have to wear them again.
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as in any co. if you make a mistake correct it !!!! and let your customer know you want your product to go out of your shop correct..... do it with a happy face and your customer will come back !!! do it in a nasty manner and you will spend the extra $$$ and never see that customer again.... haveing been in retail for 30 some years i have only 1 or 2 customers that i would rather not see again ... my 2 cents! and yes am very happy with my two tuners in tha sacramento area very happy. have had only one bad experience in my porsche history of some 20 years. and that was way out of state
There are always, ALWAYS three sides to a story... The customer's, the Tuner's, and Reality.
I haven't spoken with Kevin at UMW and I haven't asked for the details from Topgun or KPG. I'm sure eventually people will tell their sides of "what" happened... Just remember what I said above...
Mike
I haven't spoken with Kevin at UMW and I haven't asked for the details from Topgun or KPG. I'm sure eventually people will tell their sides of "what" happened... Just remember what I said above...
Mike
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Actually Mike, in this case there is only one side...Reality. Dec 06 start date....April 09 bailout date. Those are the facts, that is reality. Kevin is a good man, a hugely knowledgeable person in regards to Porsches but it didnt work out. I have said it previously, there is no bad guy here...just everyone look forward not back, I know I have....
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actually mike, in this case there is only one side...reality. Dec 06 start date....april 09 bailout date. Those are the facts, that is reality. Kevin is a good man, a hugely knowledgeable person in regards to porsches but it didnt work out. I have said it previously, there is no bad guy here...just everyone look forward not back, i know i have....
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, time to move on. Took the shackles of THATS ALL! 
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The engine is altogether, I installed Evoms fuel System.
Evoms will Look over the car, add Cams, GT3071-76 hybrids (water Cooled), tuning.
At this point, I just look forward to finishing this project & enjoying the car
